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Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, while on CNN’s Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer, stated that he would not vote for Rudy Giuliani, even if Rudy was the Republican nominee, citing the single issue of abortion as the overarching factor.
DeLay, who was indicted for funneling over half a million dollars in dirty money to Republican candidates, and who was then forced to resign, took the moral high ground in refusing to forgive Rudy for his personal pro-choice views, whilst telling an outright lie about Rudy’s position on gay marriage–an erroneous statement that DeLay stuck to, even when Blitzer corrected him:
DeLay: I don’t like [Rudy's] approach to gay marriage.? Um…
Blitzer: He says he opposes gay marriage, although he supports gay rights.
DeLay: Now he does.? He didn’t just a year ago.
Really?
Here’s a comment from Rudy on the subject last year:
May 19, 2006: “I believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman, that it should remain that way, it should remain that way inviolate, and everything should be done to make sure that that’s the case.”?–Rudy Giuliani
And how about a little further back…?
During his 2000 Senate Run: “The institution of marriage should remain defined as a man and a woman.” –Rudy Giuliani
So, Tom, when was it exactly that Rudy was pro-gay marriage…?? Perhaps you could enlighten us.? Of course, DeLay didn’t have a problem putting in a plug for his favorite conservative, Mike Huckabee, a Republican known for his tax hikes and ballooning government spending, as well as granting 31% more clemencies than his 3 predecessors did combined.
Let’s all hope the majority of other Christian conservative Republicans aren’t as ridiculously misguided as good ol’ Honest Tom.
February 8th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
The only explanation (other than DeLay being mistaken or lying) is that he equates Rudy’s pro-civil unions stance as equivalent to pro-gay-marriage.
I happen to agree that the two are functionally equivalent from government’s perspective. But DeLay should either call it “civil unions” when refering to Rudy’s record or make it clear that he’s equating the two as equal.
February 8th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
I think DeLay is smart enough to know the difference between civil unions and gay marriage.
The thing is, DeLay seems to think there was some major change in Rudy’s gay marriage stance from last year to this year. However, as the quotes show, Rudy’s had the same exact stance this year that he had in 2006, and even in 2000 for that matter.
So what exactly did Rudy support in ‘06 that he doesn’t support now?
Gay marriage? No, Rudy hasn’t supported that as far back as I can tell.
Civil unions? No, Rudy’s always been in favor of this option.
I think DeLay is someone who would be a little more informed than the average primary voter on where major candidates stand on major issues. If he’s really that fuzzy on where Rudy stands on gay marriage, then maybe he should have shut up when Blitzer corrected him and just admitted that he’s not very well-informed (either willfully or unwillfully) on Rudy’s stances.
But boy is it hard to take DeLay seriously when considering how poorly informed he also was about finance laws in Texas. Makes me wonder if DeLay knows about his man Huckabee’s record on taxes, spending, and clemency as well.
February 8th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Let me get this straight. The MSM demonized Tom Delay for years, and all but convicted him before he was even tried for whatever crimes he’s been accused of committing. Now CNN and others hail him as an expert on the upcoming elections, and we’re all supposed to listen to him as an objective political observer? Could SNN not find any other well-informed former conservative politician to give us his educated opinions? Bill Bennett? Bob Livingston? Jack Kemp? Anyone? I think there are many other conservatives out there more relevent and more representative of the conservative movement than Tom Delay.
February 8th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Heh heh. I meant CNN, not SNN. Sorry.
February 8th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
Some distance from DeLay might actually be a good thing for Rudy.
February 8th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
Let’s be careful not to turn this into a circular firing squad… While I think Tom DeLay was wrong in this instance when speaking about Giuliani’s stance on gay marriage, there’s no need to turn it into a hit piece on him.
And DeLay could have been referring to Giuliani’s stance against a ban on gay marriage in 2004. And many other folks, including NY political consultant Joseph Mercurio, seem confused on Rudy’s stance as well, saying, “I certainly don’t think there is a possibility this year of somebody with his position on gay rights getting on the national ticket…You can’t get much more to the left than Giuliani was on gay issues.”
Or NY Democratic consultant Rich Schrader, for example, who said, “Giuliani’s pro-choice position will hurt him in some places across the country, but the worst for Rudy will be the positions he’s taken on gay rights.”
Or maybe he could have been referring to the fact that in 1998, Giuliani pressed for and signed legislation granting all city employees equal benefits for their domestic partners.
And on a Yahoo! Answers page, someone asked whether or not Rudy was pro-homosexual marriage. Nine of the ten answers said, unequivocally, that Rudy was indeed in favor of gay marriage. The tenth one asked whether or not the original poster supported Bush/Cheney.
So Tom DeLay isn’t the only one who thinks Rudy is pro-gay marriage. Pretty much the entire country does, including political consultants who are “supposed” to know better. Rudy has a huge image problem to overcome. That should have been the focus of this piece, not slamming one of the greatest leaders the conservative movement has had in a long, long time.
This is going to be one ugly, ugly primary season…
February 8th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
I think the MSM will try to attack Rudy by looking for everyone who disagrees with him on social issues. They will overplay his stance and try to make a big deal out of it.
Ironically, this may help Rudy win more votes than he loses.
February 8th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
But boy is it hard to take DeLay seriously when considering how poorly informed he also was about finance laws in Texas.
C’mon, man – really? A ton of jury shopping by the prosecution and three grand juries later, he finally ends up with an indictment with nothing at all proven yet, and you’ve got this? What happened to innocent until proven guilty, especially for guys on our own side!
February 8th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
What’s hard to take seriously is people that are so enamored with their own candidate that they will go to lengths to destroy anyone else in their party who denigrates him.
February 8th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
The reality is, Delay does not represent a significant percentage of the base.
Rudy’s social positions are widely known and he continues to lead in the polls.
In the end, Rudy will gain more votes than he loses.
February 8th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Rudy’s social positions are widely known…
Not by 80% of Republicans, according to a recent poll.
February 8th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
murphy,
Can you provide a link to that poll?
February 8th, 2007 at 5:37 pm
“Not by 80% of Republicans”
That’s almost laughable, with all the media attention that Rudy is getting.
I do believe that the MSM will try to make a big deal out of the very small percentage of people like DeLay who disagree with him.
But like I said before, Rudy will gain more votes than he loses.
February 8th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
Nope. It was a USAToday poll of Republicans, cited on this very website a few weeks back.
February 8th, 2007 at 5:39 pm
Come now, guys. Let’s tone down the rhetoric. Calling someone a liar is a serious charge. That means that they are deliberately, intentionally, and with full knowledge of the facts, misstating the truth.
Let’s not automatically go for the jugular whenever someone makes a mistake we don’t like. It serves no useful purpose and only leads to hard feelings amongst fellow team members. Is that what you want?
February 8th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Like I said:
The MSM will try to make a big deal out of the very small percentage of people like DeLay who disagree with him
February 8th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
Amen to that, marK.
With friends like these, what do we need the Democrats for?
February 8th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
I don’t have a problem with DeLay.
I think he helps Rudy win votes.
February 8th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
GOP Activist,
Here you go, from yesterday:
http://galluppoll.com/content/?ci=26428
February 8th, 2007 at 6:01 pm
Thanks LJ,
This is the conventional MSM wisdom on Rudy.
Once his social views are widely known, he will tank in the polls.
To date, this has not occurred. If anything Rudy appears to have strengthen his lead.
February 8th, 2007 at 6:04 pm
Thanks LJ. So, according to that poll, 84% of Republicans don’t know what they’re talking about w/r/t Giuliani on social issues. Now which poll do you feel is more accurate, GOP Activist…a poll from yesterday, or polls for an event 22 months from now?
February 8th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
To date, this has not occurred. If anything Rudy appears to have strengthen his lead.
Dude, that’s because “to date” people don’t know what his views are.
February 8th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
murphy,
I hate to tell you, but Rudy’s social views will actually help him win more votes.
February 8th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
Good too see you guys trashing Huckabee. Maybe you could diversify yourselves and do the same to the other candidates?
February 8th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
Hey, Woodrow! If you love social conservatism so much, why don’t you compare what Huckabee has done on the issue to what Rudy’s done, and maybe you’ll discover something?
February 8th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
Maybe Delay forgot Rudy is the real deal and just assumed he flip-flopped like Romney and all other candidates that pander.
February 8th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
GOP Activist,
His social views will only assuredly help win Rudy votes in the general election. How his social views (on abortion, civil unions, and gun control) will help/hurt him in the GOP primary is yet to be seen, at best.
Woodrow,
I know your YouTube profile now.
February 8th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
Breaking News: From Political Derby (This site was featured on Fox News)
I don’t want to take any thunder away from this site, but Rudy just took the number one spot on Political Derby (McCain had been leading until today)
“Congratulations Rudy, you finally look like you want to be president! After many months of acting as if he might once again pull out and leave supporters standing at the alter, Rudy finally looks committed to the race. He is surging in the polls and some republicans are buying Rudy’s theory that his conservative judicial philosophy and commitment to appointing judges like Roberts, Alito and Scalia trumps his personal positions on the hot-button social issues.”
February 8th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
marK,
Whether or not you call DeLay a “liar,” he’s spreading completely untrue perceptions about candidates, and you can call it “lying” or whatever, but it’s not right. DeLay should know better, or he should at least know where the major Republican presidential candidates stand on the most basic issues before he tears one of them (i.e. Rudy)down for supposedly not being conservative enough, while at the same time plugging another candidate with serious flaws on the “conservative policy-making” front (i.e. Huckabee).
Peter,
I love social conservatism because I am a social conservative, but I’m at least intelligent enough to make a sophisticated value judgment about a candidate and not base my vote on one single issue that the candidate will probably not have much of an effect if any on assuming they get elected. I think the vast majority of my fellow conservative evangelical Republicans are equally as capable of doing so as well.
Lurker,
So, I’ve been found out.
February 8th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
HeavyM,
Of those two quotes, neither of them make the same accusation that DeLay did. They both say Rudy’s far to the left on gay rights, but neither of them go as far as DeLay in claiming Rudy is, or has been, pro gay marriage.
As for that Yahoo Answers page (I’ve seen that one before), it’s sad to think that “one of the greatest leaders the conservative movement has had in a long, long time” (I respectfully disagree with giving DeLay that title) isn’t more educated on where his own party’s presidential frontrunners stand on basic conservative issues than a bunch of 16 year olds on some social networking site.
This primary season will only get uglier with pols like DeLay out there making outright untrue claims against candidates.
February 8th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
Edit: KT absolutely no personal attacks… Understand?
You are fairly new here. These debates are always among friends and I intend to keep it that way.
-Kavon W. Nikrad
February 8th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
KT,
Come on. We can talk issues, but let’s not make it personal against commenters.
February 8th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
Here’s an “I love Rudy, but,” which I specialize in:
I love Rudy, but once Republicans in Iowa, South Carolina and other states where social conservatives are important in the nomination process realize that he is against an abolition of partial-birth abortion, and for taxpayer-funded abortions, another candidate will be able to beat him. Given McCain’s many weaknesses, it may very well be Romney. But Rudy would be a great choice as VP.
February 8th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
I think old Woodrow may need to do some research before he goes off on Huckabee. He is not a big government, tax raising Rep. He tried to streamline government, he cut taxes, and the taxes that were raised in the state were voted on by the people, not mandated by Huckabee. He is a leader and people in his state are better off than before he was Governor. You can not agree, but don’t twist the facts based on the Club for Growth hachet team. Look at the facts and you will see Huckabee is the best man for the job.
February 8th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
KT,
1. Get a grip.
2. Quote please. When did I “promote the ignorant, arrogant views of people like Tom Delay”?
February 8th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
I always get a warm and fuzzy feeling when I hear Tom Delay talk about morals.
February 9th, 2007 at 5:15 am
I think it says something about the US that a candidate who is *against* equal rights for GLBT-folks gets billed as “pro-gay”. What will someone who wants to adopt the Saudi way of stoning gays to death be descibed as? “gay-neytral”?!?
February 9th, 2007 at 6:21 am
Phooey. Tom DeLay is about as relevant these days as Harriet Miers. The Indicted One should stick to writing a book-”How To Influence Friends And Avoid Prison Time.”
February 9th, 2007 at 11:58 am
The hit on Huckabee is weak. Arkansas, like most states, was in financial straits in the 90s. Mike couldn’t borrow billions like Rudy did for NYC, which was also in terrible shape.
Mike did reasonably well, BALANCED THE BUDGET and did not leave office sticking the state with a huge multi-billion dollar debt — and then go around crowing “I cut taxes 26 times”.
Rudy, on the other hand, was able to cut taxes, only because he left office sticking NYC with $42 BILLION IN DEBT!!
Heck, I could have done that myself.
Huckabee’s record, when Rudy’s borrowing spree is considered, thus looks very strong.
HUCKABEE ‘08!!
February 9th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
ILM,
Huckabee didn’t balance the budget either…he used $800 million in general obligation debt to cover things up. Per capita, this comes out to about six times less than the $16 billion debt racked up during Rudy’s administration.
And just to be perfectly fair, although Huckabee didn’t sink Arkansas in as much debt as Rudy did NYC, Huckabee also raised some taxes, increased the size of government by 20%, and increased state spending by 65%. Those are not points in his favor.
February 9th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
There’s a new national review article, by all of the Editors, which expresses precisely the few main concerns I had about Giuliani’s appearance on Hannity and Colmes (the appearance which caused my willingness to support him in the primaries possibly, to flee). A key line was “He would also be well-advised to quit caricaturing the pro-life position. Giuliani often justifies his support for the abortion license by saying that he did not want to put women “in jail.” That isn’t on the pro-life movement’s agenda. Changing public policy to discourage people from going into the abortion business is. Where does Giuliani stand on that?”
February 9th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
TOM Delay is doing nothing but trying to smear Rudy, because he knows that 80 pct of the Republican voters will not know the difference between gay marraige and gay civil unions. The man is slick and savvy alright, but he is also one who was forced to resign from his high office. For a reason, maybe???
February 9th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Kavon – understood (by the way)
Thanks for letting me a part of your blog.
February 9th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Woodrow, no need to repeat that BS indictment of Delay. We all know that was a hit job by the DA just to get Delay out of his leadership position. The law the DA indicted Delay for didn’t even exist for the time Delay was indicted. That is why he had to go jury shopping. I think Delay got too caught up in the DC environment too, but what he was indicted for was not one of his mistakes.
February 10th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
KT, civil unions are just a stepping stone for gay marriage and benefits, not an ending point.