September 5, 2007

Race 4 2008 NH GOP Debate Open Forum

Now should FDT supporters be banned from participation?

KiddingKiddingI kid because I love folks!

As always, let us vigorously but civilly debate tonight’s event -and as always, leave for the night as friends.

We had nearly 700 comments for the last debate. Of course, the big sites like Redstate had almost…oooooh, I won’t go there.

by @ 6:58 pm. Filed under Presidential Debates
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684 Responses to “Race 4 2008 NH GOP Debate Open Forum”

  1. WiseGuy Says:

    Prediction: Huckabee will dominate (he always does).

  2. cwpete Says:

    Prediction,

    Ron Paul will win the debate.

    Paul’s e-guerrillas will make sure that every poll is spammed to his advantage till he has an insurmountable lead.

    So there you have it..

  3. Brian Says:

    I suppose if the FDT supporters can keep stay level-headed in this conversation (think Fred’s ad), they can contribute to the conversation.

    Bobblehead Fred = Dean Scream?

  4. Awakened Says:

    Oh yeah, another debate. Yet more rehashed talking points. Man, am I excited. I’ll read about anything new int he NEWspapers.

  5. cwpete Says:

    I’ll really get excited when the debates narrow down to 4 or 5 candidates. Too many candidates, too little time. This entire event is primed for canned 30-second responses.

    Either way, there is not enough time to really get to know most the candidates. Perhaps that will change when the others drop out.

  6. mikey b Says:

    Can you watch the debate on the internet? If so, where?

  7. WiseGuy Says:

    You can watch on foxnews.com

  8. Brian Says:

    when are you guys going to post the Brownback St. Anselm pick? That’s a defining moment for him…

  9. JS Says:

    Brian:

    No.

    Bobblehead Fred = Wesley Clark 2004.

  10. Brian Says:

    pick = pic

  11. JS Says:

    Wow. Watching Greta Van Susteren’s pre debate show is thrilling. She’s just…sitting there looking down. Talking to someone off camera. No sound. Ooh! She played with a Sharpie! Top notch.

  12. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    How many people here believe that tonight’s debate could alter the race significantly barring some Lloyd Bentsen/Dan Quayle epic exchange?

  13. JS Says:

    To Kavon or whoever can control this:

    Can you keep the Debate Open Thread at the top of the blog? Maybe change the post time so that it stays above all these other new posts?

  14. JS Says:

    I doubt much will change because of this debate. I think there’s a very very good chance there will be a Bentsen/Quayle esque exchange though. My guess is Romney goes after Rudy and McCain gets nastier.

  15. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    JS #16,

    Nope… I was hoping that other posters would refrain from posting until the end of the debate.

  16. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Oops, sorry Kavon. Actually, I was in the process of posting before this was up.

  17. Tommy Oliver Says:

    … and didn’t notice it until I was done.

    Speaking of which, the comments section on both of those posts are closed

  18. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Do you want me to remove them until after the debate?

  19. JS Says:

    Would Tommy be able to move the timestamps of his posts back under the Open Thread?

  20. Tommy Oliver Says:

    I’ll take them down and repost them later after the debate.

  21. JayPe Says:

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,295883,00.html

    Smart work in the preview by Giuliani. Avoids discussing differences with his GOP rivals and instead bashes the Dems. Correctly points out their lack of executive experience (don’t think Brownback would be too happy with that – isn’t foreign policy meant to be what matters? ;) )

  22. JS Says:

    Looks like Brownback is edging towards going after Huckabee on economic issues… now that will be interesting…

  23. JayPe Says:

    Nice one Tommy

  24. JS Says:

    Wasn’t Brownback the Kansas Secretary of Agriculture or something? Lol

  25. JayPe Says:

    Also from the preview, the GOP NH chairman was obviously very unhappy iwht FDT, and predicted his absence would not be forgotten by NH voters. What do people think about this? Is FDT likely to be punished for his deliberate post-debate entrance?

  26. Tommy Oliver Says:

    They have been removed, to be reposted after the debate.

    For those who missed the one that was somewhat newsworthy.

    “Senator Thad Cochran (R-MS) endorses Thompson”

  27. JS Says:

    Is Greta a Huckabee person? She’s very complimenting of him.

  28. Tommy Oliver Says:

    JayPe,
    Possibly, I have no idea what it will happen, as Thompson’s position has not been tested in recent elections. It depends if he is planning on ceding NH and focusing specifically other early states.
    I was against him skipping the debate, but I’m not his campaign manager.

  29. Awakened Says:

    ‘Wasn’t Brownback the Kansas Secretary of Agriculture or something? Lol’

    I believe he was the Kansas head of the Institute for the Prevention of Sleeping Disorders. People who had trouble sleeping would invite Brownback over to give a speech, and everybody would sleep like a baby when his speech began.

  30. ACT Blog Says:

    I expect this debate will be much like the others, with Romney and Rudy leading the pack, and Huckabee following them in terms of performance.

    I think this is McCain’s last stand, if he can not pull off a big performance tonight, I predict he will be out within the month.

    Also, any speculation as to why Romney opted to skip the pre-debate walkthrough?

  31. cwpete Says:

    Kavon #16,

    I don’t think that there will be serious race defining event in tonights debate.

  32. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Awakened, that would be a successful program if people actually would bother to show up to see him speak.

    Anyone else mortified for him over that?

  33. The Real Sporer Says:

    Glad to be on board with you tonight over at Backroads.

    I really wish they would eliminate all rules but time limits and just have the mics lose power at 15 seconds past the answer.

    Really “Lincoln-Douglas” debate. Anyone who wants to be President should want the chance to kick some intellectuall ass.

  34. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    ACT, I saw on Fox that Romney just wanted to relax or something because he “already knew what he was going to say” and just needed to prepare himself further.

    Urhm. Whatever.

  35. cwpete Says:

    Awakened:

    Good one #33, funny. I’ve always maintained that Brownback sounds an awful lot like Al Gore.

  36. MetroRepublican Says:

    Anyone else having trouble getting Fox’s Live Stream to load?

  37. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Stepped away for a moment…

    Don’t worry about it Tommy. You don’t have to remove the posts. People will find this thread.

  38. MetroRepublican Says:

    Hmm… low speed will load for me, but high speed won’t.

  39. cwpete Says:

    “Also, any speculation as to why Romney opted to skip the pre-debate walkthrough?”

    I guess the best debaters are already prepared enough and should yield resources and time to the other candidates. You know, to help make it more fair.

    :-)

  40. cwpete Says:

    MetroRepublican:

    Their servers are probably getting slammed about now. Keep trying, but if it fails, get a TV nearby..

  41. MetroRepublican Says:

    And there we had the Fred commercial on Fox. They went ahead with the bad, head-bobbing version.

  42. cwpete Says:

    Whoa, Just saw the FDT Ad on Fox. Too bad he’s not in the debate..

  43. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Just saw the Thompson ad. It comes off a lot better on TV than on youtube.

  44. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Ooh, the Fred commercial.

    the

    FrEd cOmMeRcIaL. FredThompson

    Does formatting work here? We shall see.

  45. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Nope, formatting doesn’t work. I tried doing subscript and superscript with Fred Thompson’s name above, which would have been funny.

  46. JON Says:

    Just saw fred’s ad. still stinks. looked even worse on tv.

  47. Brian Says:

    Tommy- agreed. But it still draws attention to the fact he’s skipping the debate.

  48. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    My feed actually works great for once.

  49. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Yeah, yeah, yeah, Bill, pithy comments. Shut up so we can get to the good stuff…

  50. JON Says:

    would be sweet to have thompson in the debate. really too bad he’s not here.

  51. JS Says:

    Ouch FoxNews.com has a big article entitled “Fred’s Follies” under the video link. Punishment for blowing off their debate?

  52. ACT Blog Says:

    Saw the Fred ad, can’t remember a thing he said except “I’ll be talking about this on my website tomorrow”.

    not impressed, with the ad or the candidate

  53. Matt Says:

    I’m not expecting terribly much from this debate. I do expect someone will question Romney about his somewhat publicized “Iraq is a mess” comment earlier this week. Hopefully he’s prepared for it. Other then that, not too worried or excited. But, it’ll likely be fairly interesting.

  54. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Yessss, Brit Hume! Go Brit.

  55. Brian Says:

    “First in the Fall” – that’s a pretty far reach to try to add relevance to this debate.

  56. cwpete Says:

    I sure do like Brit Hume. I don’t think that there is a better journalist.

  57. Tommy Oliver Says:

    I wish Fox would grow a set and actually let Novak do the questioning.

  58. JON Says:

    wow, what a jab.

  59. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    “Campaigns should be about more than thirty-second spots.”

    Uh…a dig at his own event?

  60. ACT Blog Says:

    was that statement by the NH GOP guy a swipe at Fred?

  61. JS Says:

    OUCH!!! Painful words from NH GOP chair.

  62. Matt in Boston Says:

    Mr. Collin: 1
    Fred Thompson: Zip

  63. JS Says:

    ACT, definitely.

  64. Matt Says:

    Also, I’d expect some awkward “what do you think about Michigan and Wyoming moving up?” questions. That could have potentially serious ramifications.

  65. Brian Says:

    Sam looks like he had a late night last night…

  66. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Tom Tancredo … Paul … Hunter … RUDY. Ru-dy! Ru-dy! Ru-dy! … Willard … McCain gets nice applause … Brownback gets applause from the six people who attended his speech last night … and The Man Who Built The Wall.

  67. JS Says:

    I like how Rudy, Romney, and McCain all raised their eyes and smirked, as if they were blown away by how much applause they got. Lol

  68. JON Says:

    already after thompson. brit looks mad at him.

  69. cwpete Says:

    yeah, the first question on FDT. That’s retribution baby!

  70. Brian Says:

    Brit hits a home run on the first pitch

  71. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Huckabee was scheduled for Leno? Was he? Really?

  72. MetroRepublican Says:

    Huck line wasn’t funny, surprisingly.

  73. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Huck rules…

  74. JS Says:

    Huckabee, always with the good jokes.

  75. WiseGuy Says:

    Huckabee scores!!!

  76. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Thompson is from Lawrenceburg, not Nashville.

  77. JS Says:

    TLG, Nah, just a joke.

  78. MetroRepublican Says:

    McCain’s line was much funnier!

  79. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Paul still seems so unpolished. In every debate, he’s become so spastic.

    McCain … ouch! Hahaha.

    They’re beating up on Bobblehead Fred, they are!

  80. JON Says:

    Huckabee looks like he is going to wet himself he is so happy to get that question.

  81. Matt Says:

    Well, that didn’t take long.

  82. Brian Says:

    Huckabee could have been sharper on Fred than that. It was a chance to squash Fred before the race starts.

  83. JS Says:

    Great joke, McCain! Did I miss something? Is this SNL?

  84. WiseGuy Says:

    McCain scores!!! “Past his bedtime”

  85. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    80 — What a lame joke, though!

  86. MetroRepublican Says:

    Romney reuses old joke.

  87. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Another thing about McCain — he downplayed his own age at the same time. So that was good.

    Romney: Elect me because I like to campaign!

  88. cwpete Says:

    Wow, for once I disagree with Romney, he says the FDT will bring “vigor” to the race.

  89. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Hahaha! Score one, Rudy! I like that.

  90. JS Says:

    Metro, I noticed the Romney rehash. McCain’s joke was excellent.

  91. JON Says:

    guliani’s delivery of his jab was lackluster. but good point.

  92. JS Says:

    Nice one for Rudy too. These guys are on the ball tonight!

  93. Michael Lawrence Says:

    Hey, can someone post the link to the streaming video feed on Foxnews.com (NOT the one with the “peoplemeter” – it won’t play on my computer for some reason).

  94. MetroRepublican Says:

    Rudy does a nice jab that’s funny, friendly, and highlights his own experience.

  95. ACT Blog Says:

    Romney should not be playing so nice with Thompson, about the last thing Thompson is going to bring into this race is vigor.

  96. JON Says:

    I think mccain’s jab was by far the best.

  97. Brian Says:

    Rudy was classy and strong.

  98. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Rudy’s my man.

    Here comes a chance for Rudy to clarify the illegal immigration issue…hope he gets a question about it. Or that Mitt says something about him here so he can reply.

  99. JS Says:

    Rudy’s the frontrunner.

  100. WiseGuy Says:

    Giuliani gives the best Fred answer! Wow!

  101. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Rudy wins the Thompson question IMHO.

  102. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Rudy had better get to reply to this.

  103. Michael Lawrence Says:

    URL For the streaming feed PLZ!!

  104. MetroRepublican Says:

    Michael, see #24.

  105. ACT Blog Says:

    Score one for Romney.

    Rudy is dodging the question.

  106. Matt Says:

    I think Romney needs to cool his attacks on Rudy on immigration. His record is superior to be sure, but not terribly spectacular.

  107. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Rudy had that answer all ready. Very good. Wish he’d said something about appealing to the INS, though.

  108. MetroRepublican Says:

    Rudy didn’t get to all the points needs to make.

  109. Brian Says:

    McCain showing a pulse tonight.

  110. ilfigo Says:

    Romney gets hurt for ddging questions and now in trouble for answering the specific ?

  111. cwpete Says:

    Rudy got his chance to reply, he dodged the question. He did not explain why he welcomed and encouraged to come to NYC. He said that he wanted them in NYC.

    He needed more time to explain himself. He came off bad & a bit flustered. He should have saw this coming after Romney’s question.

  112. ilfigo Says:

    Romney leads in NH and 2 attacks on him!

  113. Tommy Oliver Says:

    “With these 11 million people [here illegally], let’s have them registered, know who they are….those that are here paying taxes and not taking government benefits should begin a process towards application for citizenship.”
    Lowell Sun, 3/30/06

    -Romney

  114. JON Says:

    chris wallace has it out for romney

  115. JS Says:

    Rudy made the strongest points, but I wish he would have had time to respond directly to his quote about “we want you in our city”

  116. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Micheal,

    Go into the politics section on Foxnews.com and you will see the link.

  117. DaveG Says:

    I’ve seen one too many debates between this field. I’d prefer to see one involving only Rudy, Romney, Fred, McCain, and Huckabee.

  118. JON Says:

    what a softball, ‘is the governor playing politics”

  119. MetroRepublican Says:

    Nice one, Tommy.

  120. cwpete Says:

    The Immigration issues as totally sunk McCain.

  121. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Boring candidate is boring.

    John McCain, that is.

  122. ilfigo Says:

    Tommy…key is begin process…not automatically gete amnesty!

  123. Matt Says:

    Kavon,

    Rudy’s answer was reasonable, but there was virtually no applause. Mitt got quite a bit of applause. Rudy answered the question deftly, but there’s simply no way to come out “ahead” in a Republican debate defending sanctuary cities.

  124. ACT Blog Says:

    Romney should have been allowed to defend his record from McCain – like Rudy had the opportunity to defend against Romney.

  125. JS Says:

    Man, our guys are drawing blood this time! Wasting no time.

  126. ACT Blog Says:

    Huckabee needs to get his own line.

  127. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    oh, and as for Rudy’s quote from 1994 — isn’t that the year that Romney supporters like to say is irrelevant..?

  128. JS Says:

    Huckabee’s answer is kind of rambling… he’s not on his top game tonight…

  129. MetroRepublican Says:

    Great answer by Huck.

  130. Matt Says:

    Huckabee stole Newt’s line. Not a terribly cohesive answer all in all though.

  131. Brian Says:

    I love Huck, but comparing packages (who have no will) to people (who do have a will) seems like an illustration that doesn’t work

  132. MetroRepublican Says:

    The end was great.

  133. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    I love Huck. Absolutely love him. However, he has perhaps made the biggest flip-flop of any candidate on the immigration issue. Let’s be honest.

  134. Scott Says:

    Huck borrowing from Newt.

  135. JS Says:

    Ok, so now Huckabee’s the fiscal liberal, weak on terror, weak on immigration social conservative candidate.

  136. cwpete Says:

    Tommy #116,

    Romney’s position is still that. I happen to agree with that position. Identify, locate, document, then begin the process at the end of the line – not the front.

  137. MellowFellow Says:

    mean spirit?

  138. Brian Says:

    Tancredo very impressive, calling out Huck on immigration

  139. Matt Says:

    Wow, that’s the most animated I’ve ever seen Tancredo.

  140. MetroRepublican Says:

    Tancredo really getting his schtick across this time.

  141. ilfigo Says:

    I think Huck will first stop obesity, then put barcodes on the illegals so FedEX can keep track of them

  142. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Yes! Hunter built that border fence!

  143. JS Says:

    Tancredo’s doing better this time. Less stuttering, more concise speaking. His time on the campaign trail’s probably been helping him.

  144. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    This question is a softball to Hunter.

  145. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    I’m sick of that line about the “scraggly little fence on CNN.” Aye. It’s like McCain and the drunken sailor story.

  146. ilfigo Says:

    clever line for Hunter!!

  147. Tommy Oliver Says:

    “OK, then why would you turn a blind eye to illegal immigrants invading our country and coming in and basically breaking our laws?’ the caller asked.

    Huckabee said that he wasn’t, and that he believes illegal aliens who try to vote or try to apply for welfare benefits should be arrested.

    “If they’re caught as illegal aliens, I don’t have any problem with sending them back,” Huckabee said.

    But the governor did not back down on his positions in support of certain benefits for the children of illegal aliens, such as allowing prenatal care for pregnant immigrants and his proposal to offer scholarships to undocumented children who graduate from an Arkansas high school.

    He also criticized Senate Bill 206 by Sen. Jim Holt, R-Springdale, that would impose new restrictions on illegal immigrants in Arkansas. The governor’s comments were in response to a caller who expressed concern about the bill’s effect on plans for a Mexican consulate’s office in Little Rock.

    “I don’t think that bill is going to pass,” Huckabee said. “If it were to pass, it might have an impact but … the impact would be greater than even the Mexican consulate.”

    He said the bill could hurt the state’s ability to recruit industries based in countries outside the U.S., such as Toyota or Nestle, a Swiss company.

    http://www.arkansasnews.com 03-02-05

  148. JON Says:

    boring. hunter could be so great, but he is so uncharismatic.

  149. MellowFellow Says:

    Man, it sounds like you guys are ahead of me in the stream…

  150. Scott Says:

    TLG He said it again and it’s a huge fence!

  151. JS Says:

    I agree with Hunter, but Hunter’s not really addressing the claims that it’s impractical to maintain a fence in the middle of the desert.

  152. cwpete Says:

    Hunter is too low in the polls to go after. Besides, most like the guy – they just don’t support him.

  153. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    I should say that I love Hunter’s gusto on this issue.

  154. MetroRepublican Says:

    Mellow, Fox Cable is at least 15 sec ahead of the stream.

  155. cwpete Says:

    Matthew:

    “Want a GOP debate liveblog?”

    Just what do you think this? We have one already..

  156. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Rudy’s nice and polished tonight. Best of his debates so far.

  157. Brian Says:

    #153- how could it beat the commentary here?

  158. ACT Blog Says:

    That comes from the process of uploading the video to the server, then having it streamed to the computers of individuals.

  159. Brian Says:

    I love Carl Cameron, but this restaurant thing makes me want to see the YouTube snowman come back as the gimmick….

  160. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    I may repeat this each and every time McCain speaks: Boring candidate is boring.

  161. ilfigo Says:

    McCain nice use of webster!!

  162. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Brian #160,

    Thanks Man!

  163. ACT Blog Says:

    So Far:

    Romney
    Rudy
    Tancredo
    McCain
    Huckabee

  164. JS Says:

    TLG, Rudy’s very polished and on top of his game tonight, he just needs to hook the emotions and shoot the zingers so he can get headlines tomorrow morning. It’s sad that having a polished performance isn’t enough to “win” a debate, but that’s how it works. =\

  165. ilfigo Says:

    I agree ACT…way to go Romney against the Z Visa

  166. JS Says:

    Romney just attracted Hunter’s ire.

  167. Brian Says:

    Brownback is getting muted- I love this!

  168. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    McCain is a little off his game so far. He’ll pick it up.

  169. JS Says:

    The Craig question!

  170. Brian Says:

    zzzzzzzzzz someone shake my cage in about 45 seconds when he is done

  171. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    What is with Brownback’s hair!?!?

  172. cwpete Says:

    Romney did get a few jabs in on Rudy there. I don’t think Rudy can run or defend his prior position there on immigration & sanctuary cities.

  173. JON Says:

    booooorrrrrinnnngggggg

  174. JS Says:

    TLG: Brownback is growing a fro?

  175. JS Says:

    He just needs a little hair pick in there.

  176. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Ugh…. Rudy should have been allowed to respond to Romney’s half truths and mischaracterizations.

  177. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Go Dunc! :)

  178. JON Says:

    nice dig hunter!

  179. ACT Blog Says:

    Brownback is right on Social Issues, but his position on Iraq is too much for me to tolerate.

  180. ilfigo Says:

    Thats 2 good lines for Hunter!

  181. cwpete Says:

    This is what I mean. I’m all for “families” as Brownback states. He just comes of like a loon.

    Conservatism needs someone who can articulate & defend their positions in such a way that they don’t come off like Brownback does.

  182. Tommy Oliver Says:

    ACT,
    Have you ever said Romney wasn’t in first?

  183. JS Says:

    Rudy makes good points about practical reasons for offering basic social services to illegals, but he needs to better explain the “We want you” quote.

  184. MellowFellow Says:

    Brownback is the world’s most uninspiring human.

  185. ilfigo Says:

    nice jab vs. Giuliani

  186. DaveG Says:

    Romney sounds like Bush 2000 on abortion.

  187. Brian Says:

    Is it the government’s job to build families, or parents and churches?

  188. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Rudy, on that quote, JS, should say that he’s come around on the issue, just like how Romney’s changed his views since his 1994 debate.

  189. MetroRepublican Says:

    Thank you, Brian.

  190. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Good answer by Romney. His delivery seemed rehearsed though.

  191. ilfigo Says:

    Excellent job by Romney..shows concern for woman as well

  192. JON Says:

    i don’t think romney did well with that question. he looked nervous and didn’t do well on that question.

  193. Matt Says:

    The first 45 seconds of Romney’s answer was excellent. The last 20 was fairly awful. The hearts and minds line recalls Bush. And he shouldn’t be using the “there’s two lives involved here” line until after the primaries.

  194. cwpete Says:

    Tommy,

    They are all rehearsed.

  195. ACT Blog Says:

    “Romney sounds like Bush 2000 on abortion.”

    Yes, he does – because he is right, and Bush was right, we have to work to change hearts and minds in order to ban abortion.

    “Is it the government’s job to build families, or parents and churches?”

    Its the Government’s job to help strengthen the nation – and a strong nation requires strong families.

    Nice of Huckabee to take the high road.

  196. Brian Says:

    Where has the Huckabee whole life pro-life argument been my whole adult life? It’s very compelling.

  197. Matt Says:

    Huckabee is definitely off tonight.

  198. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Ugh…. Romney once again shows why he’s the nominee for the 2000 version of the Republican Party.

  199. ilfigo Says:

    Was Romney the mayor of Boston….

  200. DaveG Says:

    Rudy does a good job of refuting anecdotes with facts.

  201. JS Says:

    Rudy jabs Romney. Even looks directly at him.

  202. cwpete Says:

    Woah,

    Rudy getting called out on his social liberalism some. He answered the gun control question much better than the sanctuary city question.

    By the way, I think the make-up guy did a poor job on Rudy.

  203. JON Says:

    i agree with matt

    and rudy’s jab was weak. romney wasn’t even elected in 2000

  204. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Another good, polished answer from Rudy.

  205. Brian Says:

    Huckabee’s biggest problem (besides current polling numbers) is that very little of what he says now is fresh. It sounds like stuff he thought up while he was governor, and that he’s used almost all of it up.

  206. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Brian,
    Huckabee doesn’t support prosecuting mothers. I happen to agree with him, but those are his words.

  207. MetroRepublican Says:

    I didn’t think it was a jab. I just think he looked at him because of the association.

  208. JS Says:

    Good answer by Rudy.

  209. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    But yes, Jon is right — trying to use Boston as a counterexample as a jab at Romney struck me as weird for that reason.

  210. Tom Says:

    199 – It was Brownback’s argument. As much as you might not like him, at least give him the credit for bringing “pro-life whole-life” to the main stage. The county is better off because of it.

  211. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Paul: “I has a pen! See? See? See!?”

  212. Patrick Says:

    I didn’t like Guiliani’s gun answer.

  213. ACT Blog Says:

    “Ugh…. Romney once again shows why he’s the nominee for the 2000 version of the Republican Party.”

    Which is…? A party that wants to protect life? Sorry Kavon, but 60%+ of the GOP opposes abortion, and those who support it likely rank it low on the priority list.

  214. Tommy Oliver Says:

    (Enter Twilight Zone theme)

  215. cwpete Says:

    I guess that Paul is for deregulation of Airline security.

  216. JON Says:

    good point ron paul. i agree

  217. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    People who haul around money in armored trucks?

    Who the — ? How odd.

    Probably a Paul supporter.

  218. JS Says:

    Doesn’t discharing a firearm in an airplane depressurize the cabin…? I never understood that quote by Ron Paul.

  219. cwpete Says:

    What bugs me about Paul is that he sounds like a liberal – what I mean that is when he gets going, he whines. His voice raises and he talks fast. He whines..

  220. JON Says:

    hate this cutting to the cafe idea.

  221. Matt Says:

    Good answer by Paul.

  222. MetroRepublican Says:

    Yay– applause!

  223. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    “Which is…? A party that wants to protect life? Sorry Kavon, but 60%+ of the GOP opposes abortion, and those who support it likely rank it low on the priority list.”

    Thankfully, Rudy doesn’t need sixty percent of the vote to win, and not all of that sixty percent will refuse to support Rudy for it.

  224. Brian Says:

    Sad response from UNH crowd, booing Brownback. You can dislike the guy for his boringness, but don’t be so rude.

  225. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    The marriage rates have plummeted — GOOD. We need more SERIOUS marriages, not as many marriages as possible, Senator Brownfro.

    Was glad to hear some support for gay marriage in the room.

  226. JON Says:

    brownback is right but boring and ANNOYING.

    whiny, whiny. one candidate issue. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  227. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    A commercial break!? What is this, a cable network?

  228. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Agree with Brian. On the other side though, he sure does like BIG government.

  229. Brian Says:

    I’m gonna hit the can brb

  230. ACT Blog Says:

    “Yay– applause!”

    ..for both positions.

    I myself, even as a supporter of traditional marriage, would rather not see us have to resort to a Constitutional amendment, but, when you have people like the MASS supreme court going forcing Gay marriage on the population, what choice do you have?

  231. Matt Says:

    Brownback always sounds like the essence of a Theocrat. Romney can pull almost pull off those treacly family values cliches. As can Huckabee. Brownback doesn’t even come close.

  232. cwpete Says:

    These are good commercials. Supporting of the war etc..

  233. cwpete Says:

    “I’m gonna hit the can brb”

    Thanks for sharing that one.

  234. ACT Blog Says:

    TLG – I think his point was more about the children being born out of wedlock than the marriage point.

  235. JON Says:

    ’senator brownfro” HILARIOUS!

  236. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    ACT Blog, ironically, a solid majority of Massachusetts citizens now support it. So it isn’t really force.

  237. Tom Says:

    229 – Brownback is keeping the pro-life and pro-marriage message of the party in the party’s platform. You might not like his personality, but try to at least appreciate what he has done in this race: working to ensure that the party stays pro-life.

  238. Matt Says:

    So far:

    1. Rudy
    2. Romney
    3. Hunter
    4. McCain
    5-8. meh

  239. MetroRepublican Says:

    What choice do you have? The first Constitutional Amendment DISenfranchising Americans, rather than extending rights?

    I don’t think so. Too many Republican families have gay members, and they encourage them to find a life partner, i.e., to be married.

  240. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Hannity: “You can vote on who won tonight”

    Announcement (PeeWee’s Big Adventure style): Paging Dr. Paul. Paging Dr. Paul

  241. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Matt #241,

    Really? Why Rudy over Romney at this point?

  242. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Boring candidate is still boring.

  243. ACT Blog Says:

    Just listening to McCain, I think his tone is more appropriate for a funeral eulegy than a Presidential debate.

  244. JS Says:

    McCain is REALLY uncomfortable attacking Rudy..

  245. JON Says:

    Yeah, we know mccain. alright. next.

  246. Brian Says:

    I don’t see anyone running away with this thing yet.

  247. cwpete Says:

    Yes, ACT – McCain sounding very somber there..

  248. JON Says:

    actually a good point by mccain. if i were him i would continue to pound on that.

  249. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Rudy: “I want McCain’s support after he drops out!”

  250. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    McCain really didn’t touch Rudy’s creds though you’ll notice.

  251. Matt Says:

    Nice McCain answer.

    Kavon,

    Romney hasn’t had any terribly impressive answers. Solid, but nothing spectacular. Rudy has been really pretty clear and cogent all night. He seems more comfortable.

  252. JON Says:

    guliani, 9 on othe 0 to 10 sunlass tanning lotion scale.

  253. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Uhh, that isn’t what George Will said. But, oh well. Just speaking too quickly, I guess.

  254. JS Says:

    NICE answer, Rudy. NICE.

  255. econ grad stud Says:

    Giuliani fibbed. He’s only running because of 911. Take 911 away and there’s no way a pro-abortion, pro gay unions candidate is considered for the Republican nomination.

  256. Emtee Says:

    Hey, I’m a Romney supporter too, but there’s some people on here that give us all a bad name when they just throw frivolous attacks out at every other non-Romney candidate.

  257. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Yeah… I think Hizzoner discovered self-tanner.

  258. Tommy Oliver Says:

    TLG,
    George Will is the same guy who told Reagan that Springsteen would support him.

  259. JON Says:

    good answer by romney

  260. ACT Blog Says:

    This is likely to be another debate where Rudy and Romney come away smiling, which is how it should be, the two strongest candidates (though I disagree with Rudy on social issues, I don’t deny that he is a strong candidate) sharing a win. Keep in mind, any time Romney does as well as those polling above him – its a win for Romney.

  261. JS Says:

    TLG, “most successful episode of conservative governance” is what he meant, not “most conservative episode of governance,” but I think people get the point: He’s a damn good conservative leader.

  262. cwpete Says:

    How can anyone not like Romney’s answer on the surge?

  263. MetroRepublican Says:

    Rudy was just on a weeklong vacation.

    Moderator slams Romney, saying Hillary is to his right on Iraq!

  264. Psycheout Says:

    The PeopleMeter on the Fox News stream is pretty interesting.

  265. Matt Says:

    Excellent answer by Romney. His first strong answer of the night.

  266. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    There’s some fiery words from McCain! “No, not ‘apparently.’” I like.

  267. JON Says:

    mccain got romney on that one.

  268. MetroRepublican Says:

    cwpete, because there is no gravitas to the answer.

  269. JS Says:

    econ #258: No, Rudy’s NOT running on 9/11. Look at his campaign message. It’s not about 9/11. It’s about national security and fiscal discipline. True, 9/11 thrust Rudy into the spotlight and he might not have gotten as much attention if not for 9/11, but Rudy is NOT running on 9/11.

  270. ACT Blog Says:

    McCain comes accross as too edgy and jumpy – too quick to take offense at statements that say the same thing he does.

  271. Tommy Oliver Says:

    I agree with McCain on this answer. He’s right. There’s no ‘apparent’ about it. We cannot let the nuts takeover and let Iraq be worse off.

  272. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    What a great answer from McCain! Finally, something good from him.

  273. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    FINALLY McCain comes to life defending The Surge!

  274. Matt Says:

    Better answer by McCain. I’d tend to agree that Romney is too mealy-mouthed on Iraq. The surge is clearly succeeding militarily. There’s no particular reason Romney should continue to stick by his “apparently” modifier.

  275. JS Says:

    Romney got hurt by that one.

  276. Tommy Oliver Says:

    -Twighlight Zone theme enter again

  277. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Paul: “OMG, LOL — umm…I’ve got nothing. J/K. Bush lied, kthx. So let’s just GTFO.” He needs to appease his base: Spammers and |-| @ >

  278. JS Says:

    Paul’s actually giving a terrible answer. If he was taking a side swipe at McCain, McCain criticized the original Iraq plan and said Rumsfeld’s plan would NOT be a cakewalk.

  279. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Woah, HAXORS got cut off. Odd.

    Paul spammers are spamming the room!

  280. cwpete Says:

    See what I mean about Paul whining?

  281. Tommy Oliver Says:

    OMG!!!

  282. Matt Says:

    Way to go Brit!

  283. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Impartial moderator is impartial!

    Oh, damn! Nice hit back from Paul!

  284. Brian Says:

    Nice exchange between Paul and Chris Wallace!

  285. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Rudy look is priceless!!!

  286. ACT Blog Says:

    Hume needs to get better control of that room

  287. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Oh, leave it to Brownback to quiet things down.

  288. cwpete Says:

    Well, Paul whining will be the highlight of tonight’s debate.

  289. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Rudy to Paul: Dr. Paul, I know George Noory, and sir, you’re no George Noory.

  290. JON Says:

    go ‘brownfro’! the instand buzzkill. way to blow your opportunity. all the other candidates were salivating for a guliani chance to go after him again.

  291. cwpete Says:

    I like these questions coming at them are good.

  292. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Brownback gives a good answer. Joke didn’t work though.

  293. JON Says:

    is brownback still talking

  294. Brian Says:

    #290 LOL

  295. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Brownfro worships Thomas Friedman. Who knew?

    I just bought the new paperback edition of The World is Flat — looking forward to starting that, but not if I end up like Brownfro.

  296. DaveG Says:

    Heh. Brownback’s joke deserved a bigger laugh. At least it got one on my end.

  297. Matt Says:

    Yeah, what in the world is Brownback thinking? He needs to drop out immediately. He has a political tin ear.

  298. JON Says:

    here we go again. huck’s one liners.

  299. nate Says:

    The world is flat??????

  300. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    That exchange with Paul has been the most interesting moment in this race in months to be quite honest.

  301. Matt Says:

    Huckabee’s anecdote’s are wearing thin.

  302. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Huckabee’s coolness is starting to wear thin on me. It’s getting old.

    However, he comes back and nails it with McCain.

  303. Brian Says:

    Nice job by Huck honoring McCain. Classy.

  304. JS Says:

    Was Huckabee insinuating we shouldn’t have gone to Iraq in the first place?

  305. JON Says:

    so we broke iraq huckabee? oh, stop with the butt kissing.

    what is it, we love and thank mccain day. maybe he really is out on the way.

  306. ACT Blog Says:

    Tanc looks a bit like a statue in that shot.

  307. Emtee Says:

    Didn’t John Kerry use the broken vase at the store analogy against Bush?

  308. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Nate — it’s referencing Thomas Friedman’s hyper-best-selling book of the same name.

  309. Matt Says:

    Huckabee is a master of saying absolutely nothing, but saying it quite well.

  310. JayPe Says:

    Interesting answer on Iraq from Huckabee. We broke it?

  311. Tommy Oliver Says:

    -re enter Twilight Zone theme

  312. Brian Says:

    Huckabee puts Paul in his place!

  313. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    AMEN Huck!!! We broke the country. It is our duty and obligation to the people of Iraq to fix the country no matter what.

  314. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Neo-conservatives…that means Jews.

    LOL HUCKABEE: “We have to be one nation under God! Not the divided states of America!”

    Oh, Jesus Christ!

    Paul’s doing a good job tonight. Fiery and passionate.

  315. cwpete Says:

    Yes! yes! Wallace holding Paul accountable.

  316. Brian Says:

    I applaud the moderators for letting this go on. Seriously. This is far more interesting than the canned answers!

  317. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Paul is stealing the show. Not a good thing.

    Huckabee nails him!!! God I wish he wasn’t a liberal on everything else.

  318. JS Says:

    Wow.

  319. ACT Blog Says:

    So Far:

    1) Romney, Rudy
    2) McCain, Huckabee

  320. Matt Says:

    What in the world is this? When did Huckabee morph into the hawkish guru?

  321. JayPe Says:

    Matt (312) thats so true. He’s basically saying: “we need to stay cos we stuffed it up”. This is refreshing for the general election, but will it work in the primaries where many think Iraq is going well.

    Lovely answer from Huckabee to Paul, “we’re one nation”.

  322. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Duncan Rambo, brother of John

  323. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Huckabee did NOT nail Paul. Paul’s position is dead wrong, but Huckabee did nothing but use cheesy rhetoric.

  324. JON Says:

    huckabee gets lucky on this one. nice job taking paul on.

    ron paul keeps giving presents to everybody. guliani got it last time. huckabee gets it this time.

  325. cwpete Says:

    Huckabee just moved up higher on my list.

  326. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Mike Barackabee? “This is not the divided states of America!”

    So we have Browfro and Barackabee. Someone help me with nicknames.

  327. Tommy Oliver Says:

    ACT,
    You’re going to put Romney at number 1 no matter what. We get it.

  328. WiseGuy Says:

    YES, YES, YES, my man Huck fights for American Honor!!!

  329. JS Says:

    I feel so bad for Ron Paul, because while I disagree with him on where we go with Iraq now, he’s so passionate and principled and people keep misrepresenting him.

  330. Brian Says:

    Huckabee could have been stronger, but Paul sounded so wacky, it was refreshing to see Huckabee move out of his nice anecdotes and get confrontational….

  331. Emtee Says:

    Yeah, ACT Blog is a shill, but Tommy, too bad you’re guy’s too scared to compete.

  332. JS Says:

    TLG. What about nicknames for……John Cox….? :D

  333. ACT Blog Says:

    “ACT, You’re going to put Romney at number 1 no matter what. We get it.”

    Do you disagree that he is not, at the very least, tied for first?

  334. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Did anyone see the Saturday Night Live skit of Meet the Press on the debate between Hillary and Rick Lazio?

  335. Brian Says:

    In the same minute, Huckabee gave McCain genuine praise, and went after Paul. That might have been the best minute of the debate so far.

  336. JS Says:

    That was kind of lame, Emtee #334… we get it, Fred’s not here, but you don’t have to attack personal posters.

  337. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Yes, I disagree. He has come off over rehearsed tonight.

  338. Matt Says:

    Romney, despite a fairly detailed and strong answer on the foreign policy question, has really been hurt by this entire foreign policy exchange. With all these fairly passionate characters, he seems rather disengaged.

  339. DaveG Says:

    Tancredo nails it: the war is with Radical Islam.

  340. JS Says:

    Tancredo’s falling apart again. That stuttering just makes it so painful to listen to him.

  341. JON Says:

    thatlibertarianguy

    your doing great with teh nicknames. brownfro was jsut what i was thinking. whats with his hair.

    yeah, go crazy tancredo, lets blow up mecca.

  342. JayPe Says:

    Huckabee’s point about unity is good. It might not be popular (”America you’re responsible for Bush’s decisions”) but it would present a nice contrast to Hillary…

  343. Emtee Says:

    Sorry, I apologize.

  344. MetroRepublican Says:

    Matt, right… Romney has no gravitas on foreign policy.

  345. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    335 — Ooh, John Cox. He’s got the Coxmentum, remember? He’s gonna come out on top in the end in New Hampshire.

  346. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Ouch!!!

  347. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    TLG #329,

    Solid!

  348. JS Says:

    I love the hair of the kid behind the sherriff in the diner.

  349. MetroRepublican Says:

    OUCH!

  350. Hunter Says:

    Hah, Romney got pwned. Dirtbag.

  351. Brian Says:

    Is Romney flipflopping, or did the sheriff misinterpret the Governor on his previous comments?

  352. JS Says:

    Man, this is probably Romney’s worst night of all the debates. No mercy for Mitt…

  353. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Romney seemed kind of dismissive of the man. He knew there was really nothing he could do to save face. That’s going to hang over his head for the rest of the night.

  354. Tommy Oliver Says:

    I think it was an honest, yet a cheap shot.

  355. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Mitt seemed a little flustered in responding to the question on his sons. A rare occurrence…

  356. MetroRepublican Says:

    Wow, Brit hates Romney.

  357. JON Says:

    romney is getting hammered and not doing well.

  358. JS Says:

    This whole debate has been a skirmish. Everybody’s coloring outside the lines.

  359. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    TLG # 356,

    I agree. What’s he gonna do in that situation?

  360. Brian Says:

    Didn’t Romney just get a question?

  361. Matt Says:

    Awful answer from Romney. Absolutely abysmal. One of the few answers I’ve seen that could potentially be race altering. It’s enough to make me re-think my support of him.

  362. JS Says:

    “Approach it with a posture of strength” Romney couldn’t have said it better…oh wait…he just stole the exact words Giuliani has been using all year.

  363. ACT Blog Says:

    “Is Romney flipflopping, or did the sheriff misinterpret the Governor on his previous comments?”

    What Romney meant was that his sons have choosen to serve their country by particpating in politics and campigning for ideas they support, but it came out wrong, but I think Romney has done a decent job smoothing over the issue. Is there anyone here who can listen to his appology and say he is not genuine?

  364. MetroRepublican Says:

    Romney should’ve been a man and said he made a boneheaded statement off the cuff, should’ve retracted it and kissed some military ass.

  365. Hunter Says:

    What was “cheap” about it? What Romney’s comment about his sons’ “service” was absolutely ridiculous — I see no reason to pamper these guys and lob them softball questions so they can spout a bunch of feel-good nonsense.

  366. JON Says:

    i agree. quite a cheap shot.

  367. JS Says:

    Matt 364: Tonight is not Mitt’s night. This might be his first poor debate so far.

  368. Matt Says:

    Much better answer. Nice recovery.

  369. matthew Says:

    Romney is absolutely tanking.

  370. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Where’s Giuliani? Rudy? Any questions for Rudy?

  371. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Mitt will not wiretap without the Dem controlled Congresses approval? Uhh…….

  372. JayPe Says:

    Not a lot Romney could do with that question from the diner. What do you do if you’ve already apologised? Interesting he believes the surge is working, he’s on the record with that now…

  373. JON Says:

    i agree with metrorepublican. he should have kissed that guys butt right then not spewed some platituteds

  374. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    “Romney should’ve been a man and said he made a boneheaded statement off the cuff, should’ve retracted it and kissed some military ass.”

    I agree. An apology would have made him seem like a real man. Instead he just trotted out the stump speech and then moved on as if nothing ever happened, which was almost shameful.

  375. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Hunter,
    While I happen to understand how the man felt, I don’t see any of the other candidates treated like that in a debate. Great TV, but a little unfair.

    That’s the first time I’ve seen him screw up firsthand. And that was a Dukakis screwup- kitty style.

  376. ACT Blog Says:

    Obviously, I’m not an unbiased soucre on this, Mitt has hit a small rough spot, but it is hard to see how that really hurts him in the long run. Weight the issue about his sons to his strong arguements on the Z visa, sanctuary cities, etc, and I think you will see Romney coming out of the debate having done reletively well.

  377. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    I just saw this at the top: ‘We had nearly 700 comments for the last debate. Of course, the big sites like Redstate had almost…oooooh, I won’t go there.”

    Yeah, well, I like our small community. I’m not a big crowds kind of person.

  378. JS Says:

    Good answer by McCain.

  379. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    And that was a Dukakis screwup

    Nah…..

  380. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    ROMBOT TO ENGLISH DICTIONARY:

    “Obviously, I’m not an unbiased soucre on this, Mitt has hit a small rough spot.” — ACT Blog

    “Romney’s tanking tonight.”

  381. Matt Says:

    JayPe,

    I disagree. Romney’s tendency to try to have it both ways on a whole variety of issues might well ultimately be his downfall. He should have just entirely retracted it, suggested that his lack of military service is something that is a legitimate disadvantage for his candidacy.

  382. MetroRepublican Says:

    LOL, Rombot to English Dictionary

  383. Brian Says:

    Rudy is doing just what he needs to do: holding serve. Not spectacular, but thoughtful and pretty clear, and very confident. Hard to see his support slipping after this. Hard to see it picking up much either.

  384. econ grad stud Says:

    I noticed Rudy keeps looking at Romney and saying “Boston”.

  385. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Kavon,
    Even though I didn’t like the question, he stuttered that one like Tancredo in a room full of illegals.

  386. JS Says:

    Rudy’s doing good tonight.

  387. MetroRepublican Says:

    Now THIS is gravitas on national security. Just the way he speaks.

  388. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Somewhere in some alternate universe, there is a down the line Conservative McCain who is one of the greatest presidents this country has ever had.

    He is just so wrong on some issues in this universe.

  389. MetroRepublican Says:

    Rudy not Hunter

  390. JayPe Says:

    Mitt probably didn’t apologise cos the man himself said “I know you’ve already apologised”. As George Allen knows, you don’t keep apologising for something, cos it keeps bringing it up.

  391. ACT Blog Says:

    TLG – you can knock off your word-twisting bullcrap right now, I meant exactly what I said, Romney has hit a small rough spot, but I don’t see it causing him serious harm in the long run.

  392. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Matt nailed my personal feeling on it. Kudos to you, Matt. I’m obviously biased as well, but that answer was bad.

  393. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Honey glazed chicken and rice pilaf?

    Hmmmmm…. Honey glazed chicken……

  394. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Brownback/Cheney 08

  395. MetroRepublican Says:

    Who cares how Bronfro would use his VP? Invalid hypothetical.

  396. JON Says:

    boring questions

  397. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Brownback always says his first two sentences sounding like some thirteen-year-old trying to speak in a low tone to sound older.

    Does that sound really harsh? That’s what I keep thinking.

  398. Brian Says:

    Sam Brownfro = Michael Keaton on a bottle of NyQuil

  399. Matt Says:

    I’d just crawl up into a hole after this debate if I were Romney, unless he improves drastically in the last 20 minutes. This is similar to Rudy’s horrific first debate performance.

  400. Brian Says:

    Seems like Brit, Wolf, and Chris Matthews all got their questions from the same website somewhere.

  401. JS Says:

    ACT 394: Well, if TLG was twisting your words, then maybe you SHOULD have said Mitt’s “tanking tonight.” Because believe me, he is. Ouch.

  402. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    “TLG – you can knock off your word-twisting bullcrap right now, I meant exactly what I said, Romney has hit a small rough spot, but I don’t see it causing him serious harm in the long run.” — Oh, I’m kidding around! Relax.

    “Mitt probably didn’t apologise cos the man himself said “I know you’ve already apologised”. As George Allen knows, you don’t keep apologising for something, cos it keeps bringing it up.” — IT WAS ALREADY BROUGHT UP. George Allen made a silly, dumb joke. Romney said something truly offensive and should apologize if it’s brought up.

  403. JayPe Says:

    “Rudy’s horrific first debate performance.” (402)

    Rudybots didn’t think that at the time, so its unlikely that Mittheads think he was horrific tonight.

  404. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    HE DOES LOOK KINDA LIKE MICHEAL KEATON!!!!

    That’s been buggin me for months!

  405. Brian Says:

    Please let’s get to the FairTax with Huckabee! And let’s hear some new fresh argument, Huck!

  406. JS Says:

    Kavon 396: I first saw Hunter about a year ago when he was giving a presentation of what Gitmo detainees get to eat. I fell in love with him then. lol

  407. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Finally, some economic issues. Good, good. Rudy will end on a high note.

  408. JayPe Says:

    Tommy (397) fantastic!

    Brownback’s VP is a complete irrelevancy. It will happen when Rudy drops out and endorses Tancredo.

  409. Tommy Oliver Says:

    McCain- how I wish he didn’t blow it.

  410. Matt in Boston Says:

    He was against the tax cut!

  411. JON Says:

    i think romney came out strong. on immigration he did great. on iraq, not so great.

  412. DaveG Says:

    “And I will make the authors of those pork barrel projects famous…”

    Amen.

  413. Emtee Says:

    ACT Blog, I agree with you. I really think Romney’s answers have been good, along with most on the stage.

  414. MetroRepublican Says:

    Very bad for McCain. Yes, your record DOES stand for itself.

  415. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Matt,

    Wow! You are really down on Mitt tonight! FWIW, I think he’s winning myself.

    Weird how we always almost seem to come to the opposite conclusions from one another.

    Not that’s there’s anything wrong with that :) .

  416. Tommy Oliver Says:

    I nominate Brownback’s new nickname to be… Beetlejuice

  417. JON Says:

    how does brownfro sound the same no matter what he is talkinga bout. it is freaky.

  418. ACT Blog Says:

    You say he is “tanking”, but unless you think that this debate is seriously going to harm him in the next few weeks or months, unless you think that his campaign is going to be in a decline until the next debate, “tanking” is an overstatement.

  419. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Ooh, families keeping more of their own mummy.

    I like this, too: McCain has a record. He should sign the pledge. That’s why I signed the pledge!

  420. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Really a piss-poor answer by McCain on the tax pledge. Too bad. He was just starting to come around IMHO.

  421. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Great answer by Rudy!

  422. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    No! Tommy, it’s Brownfro!

  423. Emtee Says:

    How has Romney not been good on Iraq? What’s wrong with actually listening to what our generals think it will take to make progress in Iraq? What’s wrong with the importance of winning in Iraq and leaving from a position of strength rather than pulling out prematurely from a position of weakness? And jihadists around the globe are watching how we do in Iraq. A loss would embolden them, a win would weaken them. I think Romney was great on these answers, as were some other candidates.

  424. Brian Says:

    or Batman

    “I just gotta know… are we going to try to love each other?”

    “I’d like that… but he’s out there right now… and I’ve got to go to work.”

  425. DaveG Says:

    I don’t think Mitt’s doing as bad as everyone seems to suggest, though NRO’s Corner is close to proclaiming this the death knell of his campaign.

    Rudy’s answers are good, but he’s not getting the face time he needs.

    McCain always impresses in these things.

    Huckabee seems too little, too late, much like his campaign.

    Fred Thompson isn’t there.

  426. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Either one works for me.

  427. Brian Says:

    Batman Brownfro?

  428. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Oh, sheesh, ACT Blog, he’s tanking for what the debate is. No, it’s not going to kill his campaign, obviously.

  429. MetroRepublican Says:

    Great answer by Rudy.

  430. JS Says:

    Nice answer, Rudy, once again.

  431. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Or, or, 430 –

    Na na na na na na na na BROWNFRO!

    To the church, Robin!

  432. econ grad stud Says:

    Giuliani’s lisp is starting to annoy me. Can’t he pull the gum out of his cheeks?

  433. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Fee Fee!!!!

  434. Brian Says:

    Paul and Huckabee appear to be paying for it for their little bruhaha. They’ve been ignored for like the last 20 minutes or so.

  435. MetroRepublican Says:

    Wow, Romney gets a question with “used car” in it. How appropriate!

  436. JS Says:

    Sam Brownfrojuice?

  437. Brian Says:

    #434 LOL

  438. Emtee Says:

    Wow, way to put Romney on the defensive.

  439. Matt Says:

    Kavon,

    Yeah, I dunno. He’s had some perfectly fine answers. But, he’s sounding awful on defense issues generally. He doesn’t sound as serious as these other guys tonight on the issue. I’ve liked Rudy quite alot tonight. When he’s not dealing with social issues, he’s fairly excellent.

  440. Tommy Oliver Says:

    I think Newt nailed it about these things at these sizes.

    Good answer by Romney!

    Well, until he decided to recycle Huckabee’s joke. That was lame.

  441. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Oh, haircut jokes, haircut jokes, haircut jokes.

  442. JS Says:

    Will we go 1 debate without an Edwards haircut joke? lol

  443. Brian Says:

    Very thoughtful question from Wallace about FairTax to Huckabee. Let’s see if he evades.

  444. JayPe Says:

    Nice reply from Mitt. Attacking John Edwards always works well. Just ask Huck.

  445. JS Says:

    I like how after Romney rehashed Huckabee’s joke, he looked over at Huckabee, grinned and made a scoff exhale.

  446. Matt Says:

    Good answer there for Romney, but he needs to stop dodging questions. Rudy confronts these criticisms head on. Romney tends to deftly dance away to whatever he wants to talk about.

  447. JON Says:

    are you giving huckabee a fair tax question with his fiscal record?

  448. Tommy Oliver Says:

    (Twilight Zone Theme)

    Paul is fired up tonight.

  449. Brian Says:

    Huckabee makes a mistake in not bringing up the FairTax stipend. That’s half the sell of it all to me, the nice check you get in the mail each month.

  450. ACT Blog Says:

    Romney performance so far:

    Immigration – strong
    The Surge – moderately strong
    Explaining his “appears to be” remark – strong
    His past satement about his sons – moderately weak
    The economy – strong

    When taking the entire debate into context, its hard to say that Romney has done even close to a poor job.

  451. Tommy Oliver Says:

    He’s gonna stab somebody with that pin. I’m sure Travis Bickle is loving this.

  452. JON Says:

    i have officially decided that fox has made their pick: rudy as prez, huck as vp.

  453. MetroRepublican Says:

    About his sons — MODERATELY weak???

  454. JS Says:

    1. Rudy
    2. Huckabee
    3. Hunter
    4. Romney
    5. McCain
    6. Paul
    7. Brownback
    8. Tancredo

  455. Emtee Says:

    I really wish we could have a debate with just four or five candidates at the most.

  456. Brian Says:

    nice split sceen Paul/Rudy!

  457. cwpete Says:

    I’m sorry but Paul is a total loon. A total loon. He’s running for president as a candidate in the wrong party.

  458. Brian Says:

    Wow, great question for Rudy about family values.

  459. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    I would like someone to ask Paul straight up if he believes the Bush Administration had any involvement or foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks.

  460. ACT Blog Says:

    Wasn’t the “it won’t even buy him a haircut joke originally Romney’s?

    I know Huck had the “John Edwards in a Beauty shop” comment, but I don’t think Romney took his line.

  461. Hunter Says:

    Hah, hilarious question for Rudy… I love it. All candidates should be subject to this sort of scrutiny.

  462. JS Says:

    “Uh… Rudy doesn’t put a plastic family up on stage and look like the Brady Bunch…”

  463. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Did Rudy ever tell you that he once was Mayor in the 3rd or 4th largest government?

  464. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Rudy stumbled in the first half of the question, but he found his stride in the second half.

  465. Brian Says:

    Terrible answer from Rudy. He’s not going to win over any socons with that response. Evasive.

  466. JON Says:

    i have to admit that rudy handled the hard questions better than mitt. mitt did well though. just not so great with the sons question.

  467. Matt Says:

    I think part of my disappointment in Romney’s performance tonight, is related to my hawkishness. I’ve always said that if Romney goes weak in the knees on Iraq, I’ll be supporting someone else. And his answers tonight have made me wonder if he’s planning to, inexplicably, pivot to the left on the issue in the coming months (despite the success we’re having there of late).

  468. nate Says:

    Terrible Rudy

  469. MetroRepublican Says:

    No, I think that’s the best way for him to answer the question.

  470. DaveG Says:

    I think Rudy has a very good point: we know what kind of president he’d be because we know what kind of mayor he was — a darned good one.

  471. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    A Romney supporter rips Rudy’s family… WHAT A SHOCKER… Truly sad. No one’s family is anyone else’s business.

  472. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Kavon,
    Paul supports the Travis Bickle Platform

  473. ACT Blog Says:

    Metro – he didn’t stutter, he didn’t pause, he didn’t look lost, he answered the question with as much grace and dignity as was possible.

    JS, you really think HUNTER is doing better than Romney? Paul has gotten more applause than either of them, yet you put him in sixth. what are you basing your ranking on?

  474. MetroRepublican Says:

    What else would you have Rudy say?

  475. Hunter Says:

    Or that George Will said he ran the most conservative government in the last 50 years? What’s the point of these debates when they just haul out the same exact crap again and again… That goes for every candidate.

  476. DaveG Says:

    My only regret is that Rudy didn’t rehash his statement from a few weeks ago by saying, “My family life is my family life. How about I leave your family alone and you leave mine alone.”

  477. JayPe Says:

    Not sure about Rudy’s answer there. At the end of the day, as he admitted, people look at their leaders personal example, and Rudy is very very weak there.

    He can talk about leadership & the Mafia as much as he likes, but he won’t overcome some peoples hesitation over his private life.

  478. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    I love Rudy’s response to the Romneybot shill’s question though.

    I am not running to be your kid’s dad. I am running to be a leader. And as a leader I have the best record of accomplishment on this stage.

  479. MetroRepublican Says:

    JayPe, it’s not relevant to leading, as he has proven.

  480. econ grad stud Says:

    #473 “We know what kind of President he’d be”

    I wonder if Rudy is going to move on to wife #4 during his first 100 days or wait until afterwards. And I wonder if he’ll tell her in a State of the Union speech.

  481. cwpete Says:

    I think Rudy answered the family question as good as he could. No doubt, it will be a problem dogging his campaign.

  482. Brian Says:

    I hate to say it, but I am more tempted to check out Fred tonight/tomorrow after this debate…. this debate seemed the stalest of them all, save the Paul/Huck tussle…

  483. Tommy Oliver Says:

    The family, at least his personal family (not “The family”), should be left alone.

  484. ACT Blog Says:

    Here is a question for those who think Romney blew the question on his sons: What could he have done better?

    He already appologized, clarified his statement, and proven himself to be a strong supporter of our fighting men and women. How could he have handeled the problem any better? Dedicate September to a cross-country appology tour?

  485. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    econ grad stud — I hope he doesn’t remarry again. How on Earth will he cut taxes if he does?

  486. JayPe Says:

    Kavon (474) why are you sure its a Romney supporter? Just because Romney is good on family values. Its a valid point. GOP has been the family values party, and Rudy has questions about that that he just can’t shake off (his record speaks for itself, after all)

  487. JS Says:

    ACT, based on how well they’re answering questions. Not on how much applause they’re getting.

  488. MetroRepublican Says:

    ACT, when it comes up in a debate, he has to reiterate he made a boneheaded comment.

  489. JayPe Says:

    egs (483) love it! :)

  490. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    The AEIA..?

    LOL.

  491. JON Says:

    ron paul is naive on the security issue.

  492. Scott Says:

    Rudy did handle that question well, although he’s used it before. Romney’s shiny happy 100 member extended family strikes me as kind of odd.

  493. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Paul is in a rage tonight.

  494. Hunter Says:

    Travis Bickle? Good grief… I completely disagree with Paul on a whole host of issues, but I hardly think he’s a loon. He has a philosophy on what exactly the government should do and his take on all of the various issues stem from that philosophy. I think a lot of the candidates would be better off if they had such an all-encompassing belief system — not necessarily the same one as Ron Paul, but too often candidates seem to have completely contradicting stances on separate issues.

  495. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Hunter,

    I’m just glad somebody caught my joke!

  496. Brian Says:

    500

  497. JayPe Says:

    Paul can’t defend Iran & then attack a whole swag of countries…
    How pathetic is that?

  498. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    He brought up Rudy’s family and pointed to Mitt’s family as an of a acceptable example.

    My prediction is that by tomorrow we will find out the kid is Romney volunteer or College Republican for Romney something or other.

  499. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Paul isn’t a loon. His Army of Spammers consists of loons.

  500. JON Says:

    fumble, fumble, .. duh, fumbe. tancredo

  501. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Not so much Paul, but his supporters sometimes come off as modern day Bickles.

  502. JayPe Says:

    Bad luck Brian, I got it!

  503. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Tommy,

    You rule for the Taxi Driver reference BTW…

  504. JON Says:

    agreed. ron paul is right on a lot of things, but his supporters are rabid and wacky.

  505. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Thanks! That’s 2 people who got my joke!

  506. Brian Says:

    So when is the next GOP debate? Late November, YouTube?

  507. JayPe Says:

    Is Fox serious? They present a “realistic example” and then ask:
    - Paul
    - Tancredo
    - Hunter

    Is Brownback next? Why not ask someone who might be president, if you think its important!

  508. econ grad stud Says:

    #501 attack the messenger. Just admit Rudy can’t keep one wife for long. We don’t even have to bring up his adultery.

  509. Matt Says:

    Nice answer by Hunter, but too detailed to be terribly effective.

  510. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    I’m getting bored. Not good. If I’m bored, what are the undecideds feeling?

  511. ACT Blog Says:

    While I don’t think you should vote against a candidate because he has married and divorced so many times, it is a legitimate question. To many in the GOP, strong families are important, and the nominee should work to make the family stronger, and, on the issue of families, Rudy’s past is against him. Its a bit like picking an abortion doctor to be a SCOTUS nominee if he promises to be pro-life.

  512. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    488 was ignored by egs.

  513. JON Says:

    huckabee’s ‘charm’ is wearing thin.

  514. Hunter Says:

    Just a question… How lousy of a “family man” should a politician be before it can become fair game for questions and criticism? I’m personally not terribly interested in Giuliani’s personal life, but a lot of people have looked at it and come to the conclusion that he’s a schmuck. If you have a problem dealing with that, you should stay out of public life.

  515. MetroRepublican Says:

    ACT, wake up, the middle of the country, and 1/3 of the GOP, do NOT WANT GOVERNMENT CONTROLLING OUR FAMILIES.

  516. Scott Says:

    511. You just did.

  517. Brian Says:

    I liked Huckabee’s answer on Iran. It was general, but it did get more to the heart of an issue- how you make the decision is as important as what decision you make.

  518. Matt Says:

    Wow…what an absolutely and stupendously large pile of horsesh*t from Huck.

  519. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Yeah, ACT Blog, except that Rudy isn’t preaching against something he’s doing himself. Rudy says that private issues SHOULD BE KEPT PRIVATE. An abortion doctor going onto the Supreme Court as a pro-lifer has no credibility on that issue. Rudy’s not preaching the opposite of what he does.

  520. ACT Blog Says:

    TLG- probably that their are a lot of good options available, and that they will have to do more in-dept research to make their decision.

  521. Emtee Says:

    ACT Blog, very well said. I want someone to be president that you can point your kids to as a model for how to live a good moral, and virtuous life. This is the party of values–family values matter to us! How could Rudy ever talk about strengthening families (rightly or wrongly) without being called a hypocrite?

  522. JonMiller Says:

    I’ve been impressed with Huck tonight. Romney/Huckabee Ticket sounds great.

  523. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Rudy mentioned Reagan…. Ding Ding

  524. JON Says:

    i hate these hypos fox loves.

  525. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    “He pointed, like, a thousand missiles at Soviet cities.”

    Haha award for using the first Ronald Reagan reference and the first usage of the word “like.”

  526. MetroRepublican Says:

    GO RUDY!!!

  527. JS Says:

    Rudy’s soaring on the PeopleMeter…

  528. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    “ACT Blog, very well said. I want someone to be president that you can point your kids to as a model for how to live a good moral, and virtuous life.”

    When are you people going to realize that kids don’t give a ~$%^ about the President? Be a parent and stop expecting the President to raise your kids for you.

  529. Hunter Says:

    Taxi Driver’s one of my all-time favorite flicks, so there’s no way that one was getting past me.

  530. JayPe Says:

    Romney starts answer nicely by talking about what we can do now to prevent it. Good point.

  531. JS Says:

    TLG, I think McCain mentioned Reagan when he talked about his friend who was Joints Chiefs of Staff.

  532. WiseGuy Says:

    I liked Giuliani’s answer on Iran

  533. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Emtee,

    The person you speak of should be yourself, their father.

  534. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Also — “How could Rudy ever talk about strengthening families (rightly or wrongly) without being called a hypocrite?”

    RUDY ISN’T TALKING ABOUT THAT!

  535. econ grad stud Says:

    #529 MitroRep:
    “GO RUDY!!!”

    I’d agree as long as he keep going until he gets to Canada.

  536. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Romney seems like he’s trying to imitate Huckabee tonight.

    What???? Romney for President- “I’m a uniter, not a divider”

  537. MetroRepublican Says:

    TLG, great points.

  538. ACT Blog Says:

    No one is calling for the government to control the families, but many people think that the government should encourage, through both rhetoric, and, when possible, legislation, strong families.

    I, like many, think that many of our problems could be helped, or even solved, by having a strong family institution.

  539. Matt Says:

    Excellent answer from Romney. He’s recovered somewhat from his earlier follies.

  540. Randy Says:

    Just turned on FNC after watching the Red Sox blow it late.

    Been reading every comment here in the meantime.

  541. JS Says:

    It’s interesting that every time Romney and Paul talk, the Moderate popularity line goes up and the Conservative popularity line goes low. It’s the exact opposite with every other candidate.

  542. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    League of Democracies.

    Oh my…

  543. MetroRepublican Says:

    ACT, and a far greater number of Americans take great offense at that. Want to win an election?

  544. JON Says:

    good answer by romney.

  545. MetroRepublican Says:

    Romney fell flat after Rudy’s gravitas and the 1,000 warheads.

  546. cwpete Says:

    Most answered the hypothetical question correctly.

  547. Randy Says:

    What, its over?

  548. Emtee Says:

    TLG, EXACTLY, you’re RIGHT, Rudy is not talking about family values. How sad.

  549. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Well, that’s it. Best debate so far, imo.

  550. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Ding Ding- Here we go again… We like Reagan. Reagan is good. We will be Reaganclones.

    No disrespect to the Gipper.

  551. cwpete Says:

    I don’t think the debate was particularly meaningful. Nothing will change from what I’ve heard tonight.

  552. Hunter Says:

    It takes a village!

  553. Brian Says:

    Please, anyone but Sean Hannity…

  554. Tommy Oliver Says:

    OOPPSS!!!!

  555. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    League of Democracies?

    What the hell is that!!???

  556. Brian Says:

    Wow, major disappointment from the GOP crowd.

  557. Randy Says:

    Wow, thats some reaction from Luntz’ group.

  558. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    551 — It’s the job of the federal government to help raise your kids, then, right? OK. Just clearing that up.

  559. ACT Blog Says:

    TLG, while kids may not look directly to the President as an example, they are heavily influenced by society and their environment. When they see a President jumping from wife to wife, keeping mistresses, etc, they are going to think that that is acceptable.

  560. Matt Says:

    1. Rudy
    2. Hunter
    3. McCain
    4. Romney
    5. Paul
    6. Huckabee
    7. Tancredo
    8. Brownback

  561. Bwhyte Says:

    econ grad you are an idiot…

  562. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    That guy has facial expressions like Rudy — the one talking about McCain right now.

  563. DaveG Says:

    “League of Democracies?

    What the hell is that!!???”

    It’s the only thing that can combat the maniacal Legion of Doom. Oooohhh…

  564. Brian Says:

    McCain the winner? He probably had his best debate, but there’s no way he won.

  565. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Both talking heads on Fox call Rudy the winner.

    I disagree. I think Romney won the first half and Rudy won the 2nd half.

    McCain lost though IMHO.

  566. Tommy Oliver Says:

    I happen to agree with the folks with Luntz. I don’t like everything McCain said…

    But that lady nailed it for me! Leader, not just a manager. That’s what I’ve been saying. That inspires people like me.

  567. econ grad stud Says:

    I love you too, Bwhyte :) ;)

  568. Brian Says:

    wow! Look at this for Rudy! Did I watch the same debate?

  569. JS Says:

    Kavon 568, NH voters are reacting pretty friendly toward McCain tonight.

  570. Emtee Says:

    Kavon, point well taken.

  571. Randy Says:

    Rudy is the group’s big loser.

  572. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    “TLG, while kids may not look directly to the President as an example, they are heavily influenced by society and their environment. When they see a President jumping from wife to wife, keeping mistresses, etc, they are going to think that that is acceptable.”

    KIDS AREN’T PAYING ATTENTION TO THE PRESIDENT. How old are you!? People in the schools I’ve gone to are MADE FUN OF if they pay attention to the President.

    What they follow is POP CULTURE. ECONOMIC CONDITIONS AND CLASS also matter. IF YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE CULTURE, INVIGORATE THE ECONOMY.

  573. Matt Says:

    Bizarre reactions from the Luntz group. Everyone was disappointed in Rudy?

  574. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    This focus group is disgusting. “He just can’t stop talking about his record.”

    #*$)#$ing idiots.

  575. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Huh??? Rudy was bad? I didn’t think he was that bad, but I mentioned earlier that he’s repeating the same thing over again.

    LOOK AT HANNITY.. what a dork!

  576. ACT Blog Says:

    I can’t say that Romney ran away with it, but I can’t say that any other candidate ran away with it either.

    Overall, short of some small bumps that might last for a short while, I don’t see any major changes in the race.

  577. Brian Says:

    Interesting criticism on Rudy- too much focus on NYC talk. Interesting. Is Rudy guilty of the same repetition as Huckabee?

  578. JayPe Says:

    Well, thats it.

    Huckabee did ok, but didn’t do enough to push to the top.
    McCain came across as too tired to be President (he keeps getting complimented – is everyone just angling for his endorsement?).
    Rudy answered most well, but the family values thing is still hurting him.
    Romney was under pressure for most of the debate, but I think he handled it well. Certainly won’t have cost him at all.
    The rest are so forgettable (except for Paul, although it would be nice if he was forgetable)

  579. Randy Says:

    Hannity is speechless.

  580. Bwhyte Says:

    Romney once again displayed his excellent skills as a game show host. “You can see it on my website”….blah blah blah,,,,,,,WHAT A PHONY

  581. Hunter Says:

    So TLG, you’re suggesting the government control the pop culture and economy instead? :p

  582. Emtee Says:

    TLG: “KIDS AREN’T PAYING ATTENTION TO THE PRESIDENT.”

    Are you kidding TLG, kids aren’t paying attention to the president?? Kids watch TV, they know more than you think. What kid in America didn’t know what Bill Clinton was doing with his intern??

  583. ilfigo Says:

    Romney and Giuliani tie, then McCain and Huck thereafter…no need for anyone else

  584. Brian Says:

    Let’s get back to the focus group and send Hannity to the showers for the night.

  585. Brian Says:

    I didn’t think Romney was that strong tonight.

  586. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Emtee,
    As a teenager during the Clinton years, his actions had no influence over my own.

  587. JON Says:

    not sure who won? i think more of the same.

  588. Emtee Says:

    OK Tommy, but were you proud of Clinton and proud to call him your president? I sure wasn’t.

  589. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Emtee:

    1) I’m 17 years old, in case you didn’t know. I’ve got kind of an “insider’s perspective” here.

    Kids in America knew what Bill Clinton was doing with his intern because it was sexual, monstrous news, and they thought it was funny. They know absolutely nothing about his womanizing history or the Juanita Broaddarick incident. They only know what the massive news is.

    In other words — unless Rudy Giuliani acts like a fool in office in his personal life, there’s not going to be a problem.

    Kids still hate George Bush. They don’t give a #*$) that he loves his wife and loves Jesus.

  590. Brian Says:

    I hope they ask Rudy about the focus group’s response, but it’s unlikely given Hannity’s worship of the mayor

  591. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    “# Hunter Says:
    September 5th, 2007 at 9:45 pm

    So TLG, you’re suggesting the government control the pop culture and economy instead? :p

    Oh, Jesus Christ! No! I’m saying that he MISUNDERSTANDS where the degraded culture comes from. It’s not because of abortion and it’s not because of gay marriage!

  592. econ grad stud Says:

    I was senior in High School when Lewinsky-gate broke and as a highly immoral young guy, I can tell you it did have a difference.

    At least the guys I hung out with noticed girls were willing to do things they would have been embarrassed about before.

    Surveys seemed to support the same view about what teenage girls felt was acceptable.

  593. DaveG Says:

    I think Romney’s answers on Iraq demonstrate his ability to pivot for the general election. Remember, most Independents are against Iraq. (See, Romney supporters? I’m not a bad guy after all!)

    I think Rudy was strong but his lack of face time probably caused some disappointment. People expect the frontrunner to dominate.

    McCain did so well in the minds of New Hampshire voters only because, other than Kavon and I, pretty much every conservative in the country is convinced that McCain is the Antichrist.

  594. JS Says:

    DaveG 596, it needs to be Rudy, Fred, Romney, McCain, and Huckabee in the debates. That’s it.

  595. Brian Says:

    but if Paul is gone, who will be the punching bag?

  596. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    econ grad stud is lying.

    Degenerate teenagers are going to be degenerate regardless of what the President is doing.

    Those who were raised by good parents — ie; those who can parent without the government’s help — were disgusted by the President’s actions.

    What is wrong with you so-cons? Are you such awful parents that you can’t raise healthy kids without banning gay people from getting married?

  597. econ grad stud Says:

    #599

    I’m not lying I know what girls were willing to do before Lewinsky and what they would do after. You were what 7 years old at the time?

  598. ACT Blog Says:

    I djust don’t see this debate changing much, for two reasons:

    1) It was close, with no candidate really exceeding expectations, and with no candidate really falling to peices. Yes, McCain did well, showing some fire, and Romney had a rough time about halfway through, but I don’t see them seeing lasting impact in the polls from this debate.

    2) Fred Thompson enters tomorrow, meaning that much of the focus will shift to him, and that the lines most likely played from the debate will be those jokes about Thompson – I think the debate will be overshadowed

  599. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    I think the term you’re looking for is “confirmation bias,” egs.

  600. Hunter Says:

    TLG: I was joshing with you.

    About Clinton, I don’t know exactly what sort of effect the Lewinsky scandal had on our society’s moral character… However, I think Clinton was more of a product of the era than the other way around. I’m not a big fan of President Bush, but when it comes to family values and issues like that, he’s a huge improvement from the last regime. I don’t think it’s had any real effect on kids today — that it’s somehow improved their moral fiber.

  601. JS Says:

    Does anyone else think Fred’s announcement will get dampened by 9/11? Because regardless of anything, you know Rudy’s going to get a bump and a spat of attention because of the 9/11 anniversary.

  602. JayPe Says:

    TLG (592) “In other words — unless Rudy Giuliani acts like a fool in office in his personal life”

    Surely we should look at his record to determine if he is likely to be a fool in office. His record is not good. His actions as Mayor (humiliating his 2nd wife) bear that out…

  603. Dskinner Says:

    Alright, don’t hijack this thread with a debate on social issues.

  604. cwpete Says:

    TLG:

    “econ grad stud is lying.”

    No he is not. He’s telling the truth. Not every teenager shares your perspective on these things. I’m sure many kids were more promiscuous after the whole Clinton mess. Not that you think that is bad. Others know it is unhealthy and a dangerous lifestyle.

  605. ACT Blog Says:

    TLG – out of a normal, 24 hour day, how much of it is spent between say, an 11 year old and his parents? How much is spent viewing, readling, or listening to culture items? You see the point.

  606. econ grad stud Says:

    In the case of my school girls started behaving differently after Lewinsky. Bill Clinton caused that.

    Rudy similarly has shown he will cheat on his wives at the drop of the hat. I don’t know how we can trust a man with such little control.

  607. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Hunter, you are right — it didn’t. Kids today ****HATE**** George Bush. They ****HATE**** him. DaveG could probably elaborate on this with statistics.

    As I understand it, he did not tell his wife he was separating from her in a press conference, which is what everyone keeps implying on this board. She knew they were being separated. He just didn’t have her permission to tell everyone else.

  608. Emtee Says:

    TLG, if gays get married they will want to adopt children. Every child should have a mother and a father. Society should encourage traditional families because studies show children have the best chance of succeeding in that kind of environment. Hey, if gays want to live together, there’s nobody stopping them. But we shouldn’t encourage gay unions and the benefits that come with that as a society.

  609. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    “TLG – out of a normal, 24 hour day, how much of it is spent between say, an 11 year old and his parents? How much is spent viewing, readling, or listening to culture items? You see the point.”

    Uh, that’s MY point. A parent needs to control that.

  610. JS Says:

    I’m starting to believe that there are only two groups now as far as Rudy goes. Those who are so hung up on how Brady Bunch-like a presidential candidate’s family are that they will never look at the hard facts about what kind of executive leader Rudy is… and those who are intelligent enough to realize that real candidates are human beings who make mistakes and that we’re electing an executive leader, not an American Idol.

  611. Matt Says:

    Romney comes off so much better in interviews and townhall meetings. I don’t think he’s won a debate yet (I thought Huck won the first one). I think he often comes off rather canned in debates.

  612. JS Says:

    Basically, there’s no convincing either of them to the other side, so why try?

  613. JON Says:

    romney doing very well in spin room. why wasn’t he the same way on the stage.

  614. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Oh, Jesus, emtee, I want to shoot myself in the face about this gay adoption thing.

    GET OVER IT! THE WORLD ISN’T PERFECT. NOT EVERY CHILD WILL BE BORN WITH A MOTHER AND A FATHER. It’s better to have two gay parents than NO parents in a series of foster homes! So unless you’re planning to launch an attack on single mothers, you can’t say what you’re saying! WE’VE NEVER EVEN TRIED IT ANY OTHER WAY other than a two-parent, opposite-sex household. There is NOT SUFFICIENT RESEARCH to determine anything. You’re just homophobic.

  615. Tommy Oliver Says:

    ACT- The highlight that will get played will be the Paul Huckabee spat. That was actually memorable.

    EGS- Girls were the same to me before and after. Popular culture was already in a rut by the time of Monica. The big news I remember even better was Jennifer Flowers, which I didn’t pay enough attention to either way.

  616. Randy Says:

    I thought Romney did very well with Sean and Alan.

  617. Tommy Oliver Says:

    How long til Jason posts that Romney was the runaway winner?

  618. JS Says:

    Btw, Fred08.com is up.

  619. ACT Blog Says:

    “Romney comes off so much better in interviews and townhall meetings. I don’t think he’s won a debate yet (I thought Huck won the first one). I think he often comes off rather canned in debates.”

    Well, I disagree, I think he has won or tied for first in every debate so far (this one was extremely close, though, virtually without a winner) – but you have to ask, where are people more likely to be convinced to support a particular candidate? In a multi-candidate stage show, or in a townhall meeting where they can ask the candidates questions themselves?

  620. Jason Says:

    Tommy,

    When have I ever posted that? Nice try.

  621. Dskinner Says:

    I don’t agree with the focus group at all. I think McCain did well only because expectations were so low. I think Rudy and Romney both butted heads but neither came out ahead.

    I would really have to say there was no winner, but I think Romney did well considering he was targeted as much as everyone else combined. However, I think the negativity tonight didn’t work well for anyone just like it didn’t work well for Brownback in the past.

  622. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Maybe econ grad stud has some anti-female feelings if he thinks that women are so easily influenced by sluts like Lewinsky that they’d be willing to sell out their bodies because the President wanted to get some.

    I’m so sick of the bull on this board on the social issues. Can’t you all at least be intellectually honest like Matt?

  623. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Randy,
    That’s the easy part. Freaking Hillary would come across good with them. That’s where politicians have to be good.

  624. JayPe Says:

    Clinton was elected in 92 despite the whiff of dodginess that surrounded his personal life. And it happened, he continued that way of life in the Oval Office.

    Giuliani is now looking to be elected in 2008, despite dodginess in his past personal life. Should we be surprised if he reduces the office of the President to a laughing stock again sometime between 2008 & 2012/16?

  625. cwpete Says:

    I think the questions & interviewers were hard on the front runners in tonight’s debate. Particularly the questions posed from the audience to Romney & Rudy.

    The Democrats are still too afraid to have challenging questions posed to them. What a shame..

  626. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Jason,
    You bought the line, hook and sinker!!! I knew I could draw you out!! ;)

  627. JON Says:

    mccain does well because expectations are so low. rudy and romney did what they needed to, not screw up. huckabee was more of the same. but not worry, the msm, will make sure to prop up huckabee.

    especially when he says we broke iraq.

  628. JON Says:

    no kidding. i would like to see democrats hnadle questions like that. whimps.

  629. JON Says:

    i hate when mccain says, ‘my friend.’

  630. ACT Blog Says:

    “romney doing very well in spin room. why wasn’t he the same way on the stage.”

    Overall, I think he was. Look at the overall debate, and try to tell me Romney did not do well.

    TLG, studies have shown that children do better in two-parent households, meaning with a male head, and a female head, a mother and a father.

    Here is my question for you: Is a gay couple raising a child more similar to a two-parent, mother/father household, or a single parent household where a child is brought up by just a man, or just a woman?

  631. Dskinner Says:

    Romney did great with Hannity. Too bad not very many people were watching.

  632. Emtee Says:

    TLG, you’re distorting the issue. Being a single mother is not an ideal situation either! As a society we should encourage IDEALS and VIRTUES. Traditional marriage is a standard, and we should encourage people to live up to that standard.

    If mothers want to live single, that is very hard on the children. If gay men marry and have kids, kids lose the ideal of having a mother. That’s not something we should “encourage” as a society. I’m not attacking gays, and I’m not attacking single mothers. If they choose to live in those situations or end up with them as a result of their choices, that’s their right, and I defend that right. But I think most single mothers would agree that their situation is not ideal for their children.

  633. Hunter Says:

    What President hasn’t had “dodginess” in his personal life? The great lot of them were most likely schmucks outside of office.

  634. Randy Says:

    I didn’t watch this debate but in others, I saw Romney to be the equivalent of a consistent doubles hitter who doesn’t hit very many home runs but never strikes out. What changed today?

  635. Dskinner Says:

    Let’s not threadjack here. This is a debate thread, not a libertarian versus social conservative thread.

  636. Randy Says:

    Tommy, I don’t think Rudy was so great with “the easy part”.

  637. Matt Says:

    TLG,

    I happen to agree that it’s possible for a president to have a significant impact on the culture. I frankly think you’d have to be absolutely ignorant of political history to come to any other conclusion. Can anyone say, with a straight face, that Kennedy’s glamorous Camelot, didn’t significantly alter the trajectory of American political and cultural history? What about Teddy Roosevelt’s bull-dog, brusque, fiercely patriotic, use of the bully pulpit and it’s role in transforming America into a truly modern nation? These men absolutely transformed the fabric of American society, in dozens of respects. But, I think those sorts of significant transformations are fairly rare, and I’m not convinced that either Rudy or Romney will have anywhere near as significant effect on American society more generally.

  638. Hunter Says:

    Romney did great with Hannity? What a great accomplishment! I’m always impressed by his performances with Hugh Hewitt!

  639. ACT Blog Says:

    Randy – not a whole lot. Romney did pretty well with basically everything but a question about his remark about his son’s lack of military service, though he did do very well again toward the end.

  640. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Hunter gives the post of the night in #636! BTW, just picked up the latest special edition of Taxi Driver. One of My all time favorites as well.

    Nice upgrade to digital.

  641. Randy Says:

    RON PAUL WINS!!!!! LOL

  642. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    “TLG, you’re distorting the issue. Being a single mother is not an ideal situation either! As a society we should encourage IDEALS and VIRTUES. Traditional marriage is a standard, and we should encourage people to live up to that standard.”

    I think you’re operating under the presumption that I agree with your philosophy of tradition.

    If you’re saying that since being a single mother isn’t an ideal and neither is being raised by gay parents, why ban only one? It’s your homophobia, clean and simple.

  643. Hunter Says:

    Yes, Kennedy’s Camelot… Which was followed by the sexual revolution of the late 1960s.

  644. JayPe Says:

    Hunter (636) “What President hasn’t had “dodginess” in his personal life? The great lot of them were most likely schmucks outside of office.”

    How sad is that? Leaders with feet of clay. Its an interesting argument though. Rudy should be elected because he has a dodgy personal life like so many of our recent great leaders (e.g. Clinton). That’ll clinch the Independent vote for sure!

  645. Dskinner Says:

    Well considering Hannity is a Rudy guy, the fact that Romney came across better in that interview than Rudy did just before is significant.

  646. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Randy,
    Then we can all declare Romney the winner of the post debate!!!

  647. WiseGuy Says:

    My impressions:

    1. Giuliani did very well.
    2. Romney did not do well.
    3. McCain did well too.
    4. Huckabee did not do as well as before, but he still will get the media sound-bite from the Paul exchange.
    5. Of the others, I liked Hunter’s performance.

  648. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    “TLG, studies have shown that children do better in two-parent households, meaning with a male head, and a female head, a mother and a father.

    Here is my question for you: Is a gay couple raising a child more similar to a two-parent, mother/father household, or a single parent household where a child is brought up by just a man, or just a woman?”

    Studies have shown that people are willing to make studies up to support their agenda.

    It depends on the couple. Why do you think all heterosexual couples are so amazing? Heterosexuals are equally capable of being trashy, dumb, or raising crappy children.

  649. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    TLG,

    I happen to agree that it’s possible for a president to have a significant impact on the culture. I frankly think you’d have to be absolutely ignorant of political history to come to any other conclusion. Can anyone say, with a straight face, that Kennedy’s glamorous Camelot, didn’t significantly alter the trajectory of American political and cultural history? What about Teddy Roosevelt’s bull-dog, brusque, fiercely patriotic, use of the bully pulpit and it’s role in transforming America into a truly modern nation? These men absolutely transformed the fabric of American society, in dozens of respects. But, I think those sorts of significant transformations are fairly rare, and I’m not convinced that either Rudy or Romney will have anywhere near as significant effect on American society more generally.”

    Yep. JFK and TR used the bully pulpits to make the case for what they wanted and they were able to change things.

    Read that again: THEY USED IT FOR WHAT THEY WANTED.
    THEY USED IT FOR WHAT THEY WANTED.
    THEY USED IT FOR WHAT THEY WANTED.

    Rudy is not going to use the bully pulpit to speak out against marriage and adoption.

  650. Hunter Says:

    I didn’t say Rudy should be elected because he’s a schmuck. I just find it bizarre how badly people want political leaders they can idolize. I want good policy, a strong economy, national defense, etc… If they’re a jerk, so be it. They’re politicians — if you’re surprised in any way, you’re a naive fool.

  651. JS Says:

    Why does everyone keep assuming Hannity is in Rudy’s court? The only thing that distinguishes big-name pundits like Hannity is that they’re actually intelligent to see just how conservative Rudy actually is. Just because Hannity’s honest about the big picture surrounding Rudy’s conservative accomplishments doesn’t mean Hannity’s a “Rudy guy.”

  652. Emtee Says:

    TLG, I never said we should ban gay people from living together, never, quit distorting. As I said, let them live together if they choose. And from what I’ve heard, there are churches that gay people can go get married in and commit to each other. That’s fine, let them. But we don’t need to re-define the societal ideal to something that ultimately hurts the most vulnerable in society–the children. We should encourage behavior that strengthens families, that gives children the best chance to succeed, that includes encouraging couples to stay married, encouraging women not to have children outside of wedlock, etc. Not FORCE people, encourage it. And leave the traditional definition of marriage alone. IF gay people want their own version, call it something else. Civil union?

  653. Randy Says:

    Tommy, take it easy. Please? I didn’t catch the debate. I had this thread open in one monitor with a ballgame on the other. I’m only commenting on what I see.

    And yes, Romney is winning the post-debate. There I said it. Just for you Chief. :)

  654. Matt Says:

    Indeed Hunter. That’s precisely what I’m talking about. Kennedy helped transform our culture (negatively in my opinion). As did Teddy Roosevelt (positively in my opinion). As did Bill Clinton (negatively of course). And most presidents have some impact on the issue. Eisenhower’s calm, steady as she goes leadership perfectly paralleled the sedate, reserved 50’s. Etc. But, largely it’s fairly minimal, and I’m not sure it’s a significant enough issue to hinge one’s vote upon.

  655. Brian Says:

    So, who is watching Fred on Leno tonight?

  656. Hunter Says:

    But what about the CHILDREN? Blah.

  657. Emtee Says:

    I can’t believe I am even debating family values on a Republican website. Either the party has changed a lot without me realizing, or the people on here aren’t very representative of the party. Which is it?

  658. JS Says:

    Brian 658: I think the debate kind of maxxed out everybody’s excitement levels. I know it did mine. The prospect of watching Fred announce on softball Leno just makes me yawn, honestly.

  659. JS Says:

    Emtee 660: Or there are actually Republicans who believe that having a Brady Bunch family doesn’t equate good governmental leadership.

  660. MetroRepublican Says:

    Emtee: If you go to any college or young Republican event, you’ll find most Republicans under 30 are pro gay marriage or civil unions. Times have changed.

  661. ACT Blog Says:

    Alright, I’m pretty much ready to go to bed, but here are my closing thoughts for the night:

    The debate was extremely close, all candidates had some trouble, and most did well at certain times. None of the frontrunners were able to break from the pack, and neither fell out of the running either. I think that, at the end of the night, supporters of Mitt, Rudy, and John are going to walk away still supporting their candidate. I think undecideds are probably going to walk away undecided. In the end, no real winners, no real loosers. This simply is not one of those major, race shaping debates. One candidate might get a small bump (1%, 2%), but that is insignificant, and will likely be lost in the changes that will come during the first weeks of the Thompson campaign.

    Nothing new happened tonight, and I don’t see any lasting effect.

  662. MetroRepublican Says:

    #662 too!

  663. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Can I repost my earlier posts now?

  664. Randy Says:

    Luntz is back. COOL!!!!

  665. Dskinner Says:

    I don’t think there are many people who listen to Hannity’s radio show who believe he is for any candidate other than Rudy.

    Just because people don’t think Rudy is very conservative doesn’t mean they aren’t smart or that they aren’t being honest.

    Rudy is social liberal, not moderate. He is liberal on immigration. He is conservative on taxes but moderate to liberal on spending. He is conservative on foreign policy and healthcare, perhaps too conservative.

    In other words in my opinion Rudy is moderate on the wrong issues. Independents and moderates don’t vote on social issues, but they will vote on the war, immigration and healthcare and Rudy won’t win them over with his positions.

  666. Brian Says:

    Luntz says Huckabee trumps Paul

  667. JS Says:

    I don’t think anyone’s saying it’d be good for politicians to just run amok and live as promiscuously as they want, but in the case of Rudy, he’s someone who’s made mistakes, admitted that they were mistakes, learned from them and moved on, and has proven that even if his personal life goes to h*ll, he can still not only keep a large government afloat, but completely turn it around and make it one of the best examples of good governance anywhere in America.

  668. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Alright, I’m getting out of here.

    I’m sick of debating non-issues like gay marriage with homophobes. The anti-abortion crowd has lost, the gay marriage crowd is facing a losing battle with the next generation, and society is becoming tolerant and secular.

    The end.

  669. Hunter Says:

    I don’t believe the leaders transformed our culture, but were rather a product of the culture. Or maybe it’s some of both. The turbulence of the 1960s, what with the civil rights movement, the sexual revolution, etc — all of that didn’t suddenly come about as soon as JFK was elected. And you had plenty of trashy culture in the 1980s while Reagan was in office — the rise of hip-hop and heavy metal, pop music with overtly sexual lyrics… and all of that carried over into the 1990s.

    I just think it’s incredibly foolish to associate one president with the culture at a specific point in time.

  670. Tommy Oliver Says:

    Hannity introduces Rudy at private fundraisers. He’s for Rudy.

  671. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Swift, egs. Make fun of a lisp. Mature. You do seem like the kind of person whom Clinton would be able to influence.

  672. JayPe Says:

    Emtee, the GOP is finding it harder to play the family values card after reccent incidents like Foley, Haggard, Vitter, Craig.

    So touting family values as a plus is hard when the response from the Dems is “hypocrites!”. So maybe Rudy is the man for the times. Or maybe Mitt is the one who can reclaim the mantle.

  673. Matt Says:

    TLG,

    I’d argue that JFK’s effect has quite alot more to do with his role as the first “modern president” (though I’d argue that this moniker belongs more accurately to TR). He effectively helped to “modernize”, “glamorize”, and “liberalize” American culture in the process, if for no other reason then his increased visibility and popularity. Similar to Clinton. I’d agree though that it’s fairly unlikely Rudy would manage this. He’s not terribly charismatic, and doesn’t exude “charmer”, “ladies man”, or “king of sex appeal”. And I don’t think he’s likely to be a particularly popular president. So as long as he doesn’t do anything too stupid in office, I think his impact on the culture will be minimal.

  674. Tommy Oliver Says:

    egs, Let’s leave the lisp alone. Yes it’s annoying, but I don’t like people saying Fred looks sick, so let’s leave Rudy’s speech technique out of it.

  675. Emtee Says:

    Guys, I can’t believe I’m being treated so harshly for basically echoing the basic Republican Party beliefs. To quote directly from the 1994 Republican Party Platform, A Safer World and a More Hopeful America:

    “We strongly support President Bush’s call for a Constitutional amendment that
    fully protects marriage, and we believe that neither federal nor state judges nor
    bureaucrats should force states to recognize other living arrangements as equivalent to marriage. We believe, and the social science confirms, that the well-being of children is best accomplished in the environment of the home, nurtured by their mother and father anchored by the bonds of marriage. We further believe that legal recognition and the accompanying benefits afforded couples should be preserved for that unique and special union of one man and one woman which has historically been called marriage.

    After more than two centuries of American jurisprudence, and millennia of human
    experience, a few judges and local authorities are presuming to change the most
    fundamental institution of civilization, the union of a man and a woman in marriage. Attempts to redefine marriage in a single state or city could have serious consequences throughout the country, and anything less than a Constitutional amendment, passed by the Congress and ratified by the states, is vulnerable to being overturned by activist judges.

    On a matter of such importance, the voice of the people must be heard. The
    Constitutional amendment process guarantees that the final decision will rest with the American people and their elected representatives. President Bush will also vigorously defend the Defense of Marriage Act, which was supported by both parties and passed by 85 votes in the Senate. This common sense law reaffirms the right of states not to recognize same-sex marriages licensed in other states.”

  676. econ grad stud Says:

    TLG, it is starting to annoy me. I just wish Rudy would get speech lessons or something.

  677. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Whose cruel idea was it to put an S in the word lisp, anyway?

  678. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    Emtee — I can hear you yelling. “Heretic! Heretic! Do not want! Get him out of the party!”

  679. JayPe Says:

    It may be annoying, but Rudy’s lisp is hardly something to attack him for. Would you attack Sen Johnson’s slurred speech after his recent stroke?

    Lets focus on the issues.

  680. JS Says:

    econgradstudent and dskinner are both showing painful ignorance of Rudy Giuliani. Egs is quite possibly the most juvenile and uninformed political commenter I’ve seen in a long time, and I’m not even going to dignify his mocking of Rudy’s lisp and his other crap with a response.

    Dskinner: Rudy is not a social liberal. Rudy is pro-traditional marriage, always has been. He is moderate on abortion (for keeping Hyde, PBA Ban, parental notification), he’s solid on conservative judges (just ask Olson and Estrada), and he’s promising to make statistical reductions in abortion and work with faith-based groups to promote adoption. And there are LOTS of other social issues besides just abortion and gays. From pornography to drug use to school choice, etc. etc. Those are all social issues that Rudy is solidly conservative on.

    Rudy is not liberal on immigration. He is for building the fence and securing the borders. He did what he had to do to hold his City together as Mayor by offering a few very basic social services to illegals for the good of his city as a whole, but he has never condoned illegal immigration and he has called on the federal government to fix the Southern border all throughout his career. All he could do in NYC was deal with the effects of the incompetence of the federal government.

    Rudy is not moderate to liberal on spending. He cut the size of city government in New York by almost 20%, and while he eased up on the reigns of spending a little bit in his second term, he still brought government spending way down from where it had been, and he sold off all of the crap the city had been holding to the private sector. He produced budget surpluses every year he was in office, in contrast to the fiscal crisis he inherited from Dinkins.

    Rudy Giuliani is a conservative. Sean Hannity can see it, Steve Forbes can see it, George Will can see it, Miguel Estrada can see it, Haley Barbour can see it… etc. etc. Come on, people!

  681. Mcon Says:

    Emtee,

    This is exactly why a Guiliani nomination could cause so much damage to the party. With so much division now, does anyone think there wouldn’t be a far right 3rd party candidate that would take votes from Rudy? Rudy is a lose lose for socons and even if by some miracle he managed to fend off a 3rd party candidate he would steer our party away from us during his presidency.

  682. Emtee Says:

    TLG, I am open to your ideas. I realize that with our two party system, our parties are big, very big. We have a lot of different ideas. Heck, look at Ron Paul as an example! What you are saying troubles me a lot though because I have a certain belief, OK, a belief about traditional marriage. And I like what the Republican party typically says about it. (I just quoted for you the 1994 party platform).

    Some people on here are saying that this belief is old-fashioned and as a party we are starting to move away from it. Is that really true? You obviously feel very different than I do, for example. But what I’d really like to know is have we really moved that far in four years to changing our party platform completely on this issue, or is it rather that you fall in the small minority camp of Republicans that feel differently on the issue?

    We are a big party and we have lots of voices, I welcome them and I welcome your contributions, TLG. I hope we can remain civil about it. I also hope that a majority still share my view while not disparaging the views of others.

    I think if I were disparaging, I would instead not tolerate gays at all. But I don’t. I think they have the right to do what they want, and I am tolerant of that. To me marriage is special, sacred, and narrowly defined, I just wish we could keep it that way. That’s not meant to be disrespectful to either single people or gay couples. As I said, I’m tolerant of those viewpoints, It’s just that my vision for society is one where traditional marriage is seen as an ideal goal for all of us to strive for, but never to look down at others if they don’t achieve it. I hope the majority of my party still share my view, though these days I wonder.

  683. ThatLibertarianGuy Says:

    “To me marriage is special, sacred, and narrowly defined, I just wish we could keep it that way.”

    Wouldn’t want the fags to come and f–k it up, then, right?

  684. Patrick Ruffini :: Why No Righty Kos? Says:

    [...] the insane community that is building around a focused group blog like Race, take a look at their 700+ comment thread during the debate. There is a market there. And a lot of passion [...]

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