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FYI… over at MMM I’ve posted an exclusive interview with a Western Wats employee. (Western Wats is the firm that reportedly made the “anti-mormon” calls in Iowa).
I told him that there are numerous reports now on both sides of the battle. One claiming that opposing campaigns are behind these efforts another pointing to Western Wats employees contributing to Mitt and claiming this is an inside job to make Mitt’s opponents look bad.
First, he wanted to impress upon me that Western Wats does not do push polling, rather they do message testing. (I think this distinction will be lost on most people.)
Here are the key takeaways from the interview:
I asked him about the NH AG looking into the matter. He said, he hoped they would it would save him a lot of headaches. The short of it is this (IMHO): we won’t get any answers until there’s a official investigation to pry it out of the NDA-clenched hands.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
There’s going to be a lot more anti-Mormon stuff in the next two months. Republicans will come to their senses and realize we don’t want to deal with this in the general election, and will quash Mitt Romney’s campaign.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
It must be made known that Mitt Romney himself indirectly blamed John McCain for this because of campaign finance reform.
“It is appalling, but not surprising, that Mitt Romney would seek to take advantage of this disturbing incident to launch yet another hypocritical attack. It’s the hallmark of his campaign.”
“Back when Romney was calling for taxing campaign contributions and banning PACs, and before McCain-Feingold was passed, push polling was, regrettably, alive and well in American politics. Anyone who spent a day in South Carolina in 2000 knows that.”
-Jill Hazelbaker, communications director for McCain
Well spoken Jill!
November 16th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
Is this all a ploy by Mitt to pave the way for his much overhyped Kennedy speech?
November 16th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
Romney is blaming McCain-Feingold – and you can allow your own head to do a Linda Blair on that one.
BAHAHAHAHA.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/11/those-anti-morm.html
November 16th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWyCCJ6B2WE
November 16th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
#1 Metro,
Or Republicans may not want to deal with everything that is Rudy (as clearly the early polls show). Rudy and Romney both have issues the Dems will use against them, that being said either one can beat Hillary in the general as tough as it will be.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
Sampo, you are a strange sorry little man.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
Metro,
Using that argument, there will be a lot of skeletons(kerik, his clients, his personal life, etc.) coming out of rudy’s closet in the next two months. Republicans should come to their senses and not want to deal with it during the general election.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:29 pm
This will not hurt Romney because people hate dirty attacks and this is extremely low. As a side not, I once worked at western wats while in college and they hae nothing to do with the questions, it came from a campaign.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
Sampo, Metro, you guys are amazing..
Let the investigation proceed and the allegations fly. This entire thing is not just bad for Mormons, but for Republicans as a whole.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
Out of curiosity, does anyone know how much it costs to conduct a poll?
November 16th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
BTW, if they link this back to a campaign- it will be toast. Not just slightly toasted, but burnt to a crisp. It will be interseting to see if Rudy’s campaign is behind it, for all we know Fox news is doing it for him.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
Let the investigation proceed
You’re a better man than Romney. He already blamed McCain.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
People pay big $$$ to do a state-wide poll.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
Has anyone looked into the background of ALL people who contacted the media about these calls. At least one of them was associated with Romney campaign. Who contacted NH AG? It is going to be interesting to watch all this unravel.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
As a former employee of Western Watts (The Idaho one), I can tell you that the leaders have something to do with what polls they get. They also can choose which employees will conduct which polls. Whoever formulated this attack was very clever, since they used a Utah-based company to do the dirty work and get people thinking that it might be Romney, and used the disguise of McCain (Who I don’t think did it).
I hope whoever did it gets caught and reprimanded for it. McCain is leading the attack and will likely benefit from a take-down of the bigot. Some believe that Rudy did it, and that might be based off of trust issues they have with him since he dropped the ball with his wives in the past, who knows. Personally, I like Giuliani and I don’t think that he did it, but I’d like to hear it from his mouth, as well as everyone else condemning the action. Whoever the 3rd grader is needs to be kicked out of the race.
I have been very disappointed with some on this site who have taken the opportunity to minimize the seriousness of this situation and have even said disturbing comments about the LDS church that seem to paralell the attitude that the person who created this mess. I think that everyone should be more like McCain is in this situation and go hunt the sucker down and kick his trash, rather than just say that it’s o.k. and that, yeah, Mormons are weird.
I would hope that all of you will leave your candidate and vote for someone else if you find out that he is the one behind it. I will do the same.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
“There’s going to be a lot more anti-Mormon stuff in the next two months. Republicans will come to their senses and realize we don’t want to deal with this in the general election, and will quash Mitt Romney’s campaign.”
Metro once called me a religious zealot. I will support the most qualified candidate to be president whether he is Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Mormon, Muslim, or Atheist. Who is the real zealot?
November 16th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
Sampo #2: I agree, it was pretty lousy for Mitt to use the issue for another attack. It’s really remarkable that he’s consistently the candidate who seems desperate to tear up everyone else in the GOP field the most aggressively and with the wildest zest for distortion.
It’s interesting, too, that this stunt crops up the evening before Rudy’s headline-grabbing speech at the Federalist Society. Coincidence? Guess we’ll never know for certain.
Oh, let’s not forget, isn’t Mitt the one with the deepest pockets to self-finance such a thing through an untraceable 527? Boy, when you get started speculating on this, the mind truly boggles. But this morning I felt more like I was channeling David Chase, if you get my drift…
November 16th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
jrcutler – contact me offline if you would: justin@mymanmitt.com
November 16th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
Also meant to mention that the Dems and many of their supporters are well enough funded to pull the stunt, too. Not just Mitt.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
It is too early for the Dems to pull anything like this. Right now, they have save their resources to fight their battles amongst themselves..
November 16th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
This is plain and simple a Romney set up. They use a Utah company where individuals have donated to Romney? It’s perfect. The probability that Romney did this is exactly equal to zero.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
MarkG, I don’t believe there is anything in Mitt’s background showing this type of sleazy behavior. I don’t think anyone who was in business with him has come out with scandals involving him cutting corners or anything of that nature, so it would be out of character for him to do something like this. Secondly, we all would agree his family life is impeccable. His biggest flaw is that he has changed his mind on more issues than the average person does over the course of his/her life. I don’t think there is anything in his background suggesting sleazy campaign tactics, so I would be surprised he would do something so diabolical as to do push polls attacking him as a way to gin up sympathy. If I find out he did, I will support another candidate. The only thing I recall him doing in campaign mode that was kind of fishy was the way he outfoxed Jane Swift in Massachusetts. I’m not really sure of the exact details there. I don’t think he has ever done push polling or any practices like that before. It is most likely not a specific candidate anyway, but a 527 doing this. It will be interesting to find out more details.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
Some Republicans have more to gain by smearing Romney this way than the liberals.
No doubt, this was done by either a McCain, Rudy, Huckabee, or FDT sympathizer. Since Brownback institued robo-calls in IA verses Romney which backfired, my money is on McCain since Brownback has endorsed him. This just seems to me like something they would do.
Who knows, I hope they investigate this. McCain’s call for an investigation does not incline me to believe that it was not him one bit.
This is dirty, very cheap, very low, and dirty. This has to be the lowest blow I’ve seen for this election cycle.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
cwpete, what are you talking about? The Dems are floating in resources.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
This morning I was sure it was Giuliani because his campaign has ties to Wats, but after Romney’s response I am leaning toward a Nixonian self-inflicted wound. Here is my reasoning.
The natural response to an anonymous attack is to denounce it, possibly defend some of the things said (even if to call them “absurd”), and then take the high road. In contrast, Romney blames McCain-Feingold (huh?) and therefore, by association, Mcain himself. If anyone knows McCain, this type of stuff is truly beneath him so the last person you would want to even hint at is him. I therefore conclude that Romney’s campaign may have paid for the push poll to garner sympathy and offset any negativity associated with his mormonism.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
#25,
“cwpete, what are you talking about? The Dems are floating in resources.”
That does not mean that they are doing this Richard. Who benefits more from taking Romney down now, the liberals or Republican primary opponents?
November 16th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
There is a possibility the Democrats are behind this. The Massachusetts Democrats have set up an anti-Romney website already. I don’t care what they say publicly. Romney is the guy the Democrats do NOT want to get the nomination. I don’t think it is even a conscious feeling, but subconsciously they feel very threatened by him, and with good reason. The DNC has done more pieces attacking him than any other candidate. It’s like on our side. Do Republicans get angry when they hear Dennis Kucinich’s name? Of course not. He is not any threat to us. People get angry at those who are threats to them being in power.
November 16th, 2007 at 6:01 pm
Wow #26,
This certainly is a lose / lose for Romney isn’t it? He’s getting totally smeared and he’s being accused of doing his own smearing? Brilliant!
Makes little sense to me.. Consider recent events:
-Romney has several good weeks. Distinguishes himself further in the IA & NH polls. Moves into 2nd place in some national polls.
-McCain’s mother let slip her true thoughts on Mormons in front of a national audience.
-Now this smear comes next.
Coincidence? I think not. Again, I ask this question:
Who benefits more from taking Romney down now, the liberals or Republican primary opponents?
November 16th, 2007 at 6:01 pm
Feltcher, your scenario is so implausible. Romney would not have used a Utah polling company with employees who have donated to him. It’s pure insanity to do such a thing.
November 16th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
Romney may be a lot of things, but dumb isn’t one of them.
November 16th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
CWPete, I guess in the short term Republican primary opponents have more to gain from taking him down. I think in the long term liberals would have more to gain. The DNC has attacked Mitt more than any other candidate. Dean must consciously or subconsciously feel Romney would be the toughest opponent. That reminds me, Dick Morris frequently belittles Romney. He recently said, “Romney wouldn’t have a prayer in hell of beating Hillary.” Howard Dean, Dick Morris, you can often tell the measure of a man by his enemies.
November 16th, 2007 at 6:12 pm
Clarence,
Dick Morris has almost zero credibility on the ‘08 race. From the beggining he’s always been in rudy’s camp and spoken kindly of huckabee(his former client). Morris basically shifts the goal posts as his predictions become wrong. It was just a few weeks ago that Alan Colmes confronted him on this and he had an on air hissy fit.
November 16th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
OK Clarence I tell you what,
..if this gets investigated and if it comes out that one of the liberals did this, then I’ll donate $100.00 to John McCain. If McCain is not running by then, then I’ll donate $100 to one of his PACs..
It may take weeks. Probably won’t get resolved till after the early primaries anyway so that damage won’t be reversed.
November 16th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
I wonder if we’ll get to the bottom of this before we start voting.
What keeps confusing me is the timing. If a third party wanted to help McCain and hurt Romney they’d want to wait until a couple weeks before the voting so that there’d not be enough time for the media to uncover who was behind it. Given that we have 6 weeks before Iowa we may very well find out the villain before the Iowa caucus. That makes this very fishy.
I know the candidates will be competing with the Holidays soon but there was no reason to jump the gun this early.
Even if the perpetrator is outside the campaign it will hurt whomever they were doing this for.
November 16th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
I think there could be a solid argument for a “clean” stunt from the Romney campaign. But it’s too hard to support because it relies on too many puzzle pieces falling perfectly into place. But here’s the short version:
- Order a message testing poll on Mormonism.
- Have it placed so as to leak and grab a news cycle.
- Respond by firing off shots at rival campaigns.
- Once interest builds in the content of the message that was tested, roll out the speech defending Mormonism to wide acclaim.
That wouldn’t necessarily be bad if you succeeded in talking about your faith in the right way. Of course, whether the Romney camp had anything to do with the poll or not, it would still be the right backdrop for the speech.
But I’m inclined to believe it’s some independent “loose cannon” group with its own point to make and/or message to test.
November 16th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
Romney not only isn’t dumb enough to do this, but he’s not that corrupt. Call him a flip-flopper, plastic, robot or anything else, but he has always been ethical.
November 16th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
I concede it would be crazy for Romney to do this, but would someone please explain his response?
It shouldn’t take more than a few weeks to determine who is behind this depending on the pressure the NH AG applies. The only issues I see is whether the NH AG has any authority over Wats and whether Wats can avoid disclosing their client’s name. Making calls into the state should be sufficient for the AG and confidentiality agreements can be used to shield a crime. So, its open and shut to me.
November 16th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
The two most likely scenarios in my opinion are; one, a rouge, and incredibly stupid, Romney supporter who thought they would get away with it, or two, a 527 who dislikes Romney. This is too risky for any campaign to do; I don’t see how any of them would have even considered it.
November 16th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Richard P is right this would be suicide for any campaign that did it
November 16th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
OT: MI Jan15 primary off?
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MWM2MGQ0ZjA3ZDVkOTg1ZGQwYWY3NGU4YTNjZDAwZWU=
November 16th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
I’d be curious if other candidates join McCain in complaining to th NH AG. Seems like who ever did it was too dumb to realize that the authorities would be involved in figuring out who they are.
November 16th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
“Even if the perpetrator is outside the campaign it will hurt whomever they were doing this for.”
You really think so? I’m not sure. I think it was some McCain supporters, but I don’t blame him in the least.
November 16th, 2007 at 7:04 pm
When is the next interview for Giuliani, McCain or Romney. I bet none of them will be able to get through their next interview without dealing with this issue.
November 16th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
What, nothing about Romney News Network?
November 16th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
Psycheout?
Where have you been since Sam Brownback exited the race?
Just curious, do you now support McCain now that Brownback has endorsed him?
November 16th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
Just a wild thought… How about Brownback? He has always done this kind of campaigning against Romnet while in the race, and has endorsed McCain. He may have left over campaign funds that he can use any way he wants.
November 16th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
New FL poll by Strategic Vision with 600 likely voters:
Rudy 31
JMac 13
Fred 13
Mitt 12
Huck 10
November 16th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
“They are a well known push-polling company working for various Republican groups. They are frequently hired by the Tarrance Group to do push polling for various RNC politicians and groups.”
http://coathangersatdawn.blogspot.com/2006/08/more-on-abortion-push-polling-and-who.html
It’s probably the close connection between Tarrance and Western Watts that made McCain’s camp point fingers at Rudy’s camp.
November 16th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
Romney is on CNBC and he again blamed McCain-Feigngold. Kudlow asked whether he was leaning more toward giving a religion speech, but he whiffed on that, saying he had nothing new to add.
November 16th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
http://www.eyeon08.com/2007/11/16/romneys-friends-with-western-wats-family/
November 16th, 2007 at 8:07 pm
Uh-oh.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
My bet is that it is someone like a MoveOn.org or something to that effect. They could be injecting this type of junk into the Republican race just to take the focus off of the Republicans going after their girl Hillary.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
Feltcher:
For better of for worse, it is because of the limiting of speech (campaign contributions) as prescribed by the McCain-Feildgold provision that we have all these 529s.
Since no campaign has fessed up to this, this smear probably has been concocted by some covert 529 group sympathizing with one of Romney’s opponents. It is because of these 529s that such interest groups do this, Thanks to the provisions mandated by McCain-Feingold, they have no other way to operate.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:15 pm
Wow, this is looking more and more like a Romney inside job to induce pity and distract from yesterday’s Iowa ARG poll and today’s Rudy speech at the Federalist Society.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
#55 – C’mon Metro, get real.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:17 pm
I don’t get Romney’s 527 argument. Is he saying without McCain-Feingold, the perpetrators would be open about their identity? Huh?
But the perpetrators are looking more and more like Romney insiders.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
Metro, you might want to adjust that tin foil hat a little better. No way this was done by the Romney campaign. I doubt any other campaign would do it either.
But you never can speak for the supporters of the campaigns.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
Jared, this isn’t a MetroRepublican conspiracy. I’m getting this from National Review Online as well as the evidence EyeOn08 has unearthed.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
murphy, true. Just because it’s a friend of Mitt’s doesn’t mean it came from Team Mitt per se.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Do you think that whoever is clever enough to pull off a stunt like this, might just try and make it look like someone else (McCain, Rudy, or even Romney) is tied to it. You really think that Romney would try and draw criticism to his religion when that has been the 1 thorn in his side the entire election?? Show me your facts other than a picture taken on the campaign trail.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
“Wow, this is looking more and more like a Romney inside job to induce pity and distract from yesterday’s Iowa ARG poll and today’s Rudy speech at the Federalist Society.”
..and by what evidence do you have to suggest that? You think that is true since this apparently was done by some group in UT? Sheesh… As if all people in UT like the Mormons.
If I were hellbent on smearing Romney, I’d choose a group from UT to do it.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
#58 – I agree murphy, this could be some half-cocked attempt from a Romney supporter to do a favor to the campaign . . and in no way would be endorsed by the candidate or his campaign. It is just wayyyyyyyy to sensitive an inssue in this election. And if anyone understands that, I think it is Mitt.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
EyeOn08?!!?
You’ve got to be kidding me, Metro! Since when has EyeOn08 ever given Romney a fair shake.
Because of them suggesting that, I was thinking that this was a Rudy guy pulling this all alone. But I don’t think Rudy himself would ever stoop that low.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
http://flapsblog.com/?p=5900
November 16th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
I don’t think any of the candidates would stoop this low. This is a very sensitive subject, especially in this race. I wouldn’t put it past some wacky supporter of a candidate though. I really doubt that any campaign had knowledge of this, and until the NH AG gets done fact finding, I think it is best to withhold ALL judgements.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
cwpete, the FOUNDER and CHAIRMAN of Western Wats is a FRIEND of Romney and top execs have contributed to him.
You think THEY would allow anti-Mormon polling if they weren’t in on it?
I’m not saying it’s coming from Mitt’s campaign. But it’s coming from friends of Mitt.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
MetroRepublican Says:
“Jared, this isn’t a MetroRepublican conspiracy. I’m getting this from National Review Online as well as the evidence EyeOn08 has unearthed.”
EyeOn08 is a crazy anti-Romney website. NRO discovered that some of the people who work at Wester Wats donated to Mitt’s campaign.
***Breaking News****
A lot of people in Utah have donated to Mitt’s campaign
My source is 1000 Metrorepublican comments.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
Metro, where do you get your facts?
EyeOn08’s a real joke. He’s implying inside dealings based on the fact that Romney is friends (according to something Soren read on another blog) with Teena Lindorf, sister-in-law of Ron Lindorf, a founder who sold Western Wats years ago.
You’re using this as part of your “evidence”, Metro?
November 16th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
“FOUNDER and CHAIRMAN of Western Wats is a FRIEND of Romney and top execs have contributed to him.”
State your source please. Show me a legitimate source stating that the Charmian of Western Wats (which is working for the Giuliani campaign mind you) is a friend of Romney and has contributed to his campaign.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
cwpete, already been disproven Western Wats is working for the Giuliani campaign.
Appears the founder sold the company, sorry. But it’s still a connection, as is the fact that a top current exec donates to Romney.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
It’s suspiciously quick how this has become blamed on Mitt Romney. Not to mention insane.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
To be honest, cwpete, I haven’t made up my mind. There are things about McCain I like and things I don’t. Brownback made his choice, I have yet to make mine.
I continue to read race 4 2008 every day (how could I not?) but don’t comment that often. There’s a great community here of people with interesting opinions.
And I still blog every day. I think it’s a good thing to do, whether people agree with my opinions or not.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
I’m sure there are people in the company that donate to all the campaigns. Why are all the nutjobs trying to blame this on Romney?
November 16th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
Metro:
I’ll make you a gentleman’s bet. If this comes out to be an inside job as your wild conspiratorial anti-Romney sites suggest, I’ll make a $100 donation to Giuliani’s campaign.
If not, you donate $100 to Mr. Romney.
Deal? Are we on?
November 16th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
bjalder26, why not? That’s all some folks like Soren do.
One of the things I’ve grown to appreciate over the last year is how rare intellectual honesty and objectivity are.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
“already been disproven Western Wats is working for the Giuliani campaign.”
Not really, The Tarrance Group has a letter saying they weren’t involved, not a letter saying that Giuliani’s camp wasn’t involved.
With that said, I don’t think Giuliani’s camp, or any other camp is involved.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
One of the things I’ve grown to appreciate over the last year is how rare intellectual honesty and objectivity are.
Amen, it’s shocking.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
“already been disproven Western Wats is working for the Giuliani campaign.”
No it has not, if so – please educate me. There is more of a connection to the Giuliani campaign to this than what there ever was with Romney and lawn work. Rudy’s campaign has paid the firm more than $400,000, according to federal campaign reports.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
It’s interesting how even though it’s 10 times more likely to be an outside group. All the speculation and talk is whether or not these campaigns are involved. Doesn’t anybody want to talk about which outside group it could be?
November 16th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
cwpete, No, the Giuliani campaign has hired the Tarrance Group, which has obtained in writing today from Western Wats what WW is not working for TG.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
Western Wats is based in my home town of Orem, Utah, which is *very* LDS. I have a hard time believing that the company could get many employees who would actually agree to carry out such a poll.
I also think we should question whether or not the callers were from Western Wats in the first place.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
I’d put my money this being an Evangelical group. They’ve done this before, and will escalate as voting approaches. They were savvy enough to muddy the waters using a firm with ties to Romney and questions regarding McCain.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
It is pretty odd, though, that a pollster does either push-polling or else message testing on party officials in IA. Especially if the anti-Mormon message is one that is so aggressively negative that the respondent felt extra pity for Mitt thanks to the sheer meanness.
Wow, what a wild story!
November 16th, 2007 at 8:41 pm
Would be interesting to see the full script of the ad. I sure hope we do some day.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
BTW, it’s quite choice for Rombots to lecture about intellectual honesty and objectivity.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
Un-American
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56Aru-xSpbk
November 16th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
#84 – Good point Metro. It slipped my mind that this could have ties to an Evangelical group. It is totally within the realm of possibility, especially with all of the ignorance regarding Mormons and their beliefs. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
http://brainwrite.com/?p=11
November 16th, 2007 at 8:49 pm
“Western Wats is based in my home town of Orem, Utah, which is *very* LDS. I have a hard time believing that the company could get many employees who would actually agree to carry out such a poll.”
Exactly. That is why whomever was making these calls probably lied by saying they were Western Wats. As if someone making doing this kind of dirty work would be honest about who is employing them. Do phone records show that this was done from an area code within UT?
There needs to be a investigation.
Metro,
Deal or no deal?
November 16th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
Logic suggests there is no need to look for a shooter on the grassy knoll. Western Wats has connections to at least Romney and Giuliani and has done work for other GOP candidates and organizations. Seems we can therefore rule out a dem organization or candidate (don’t you think Western Wats would decline a dem contract and then run to the media and disclose what they were planning?)
The fact that the poll used McCain’s name suggests to me that they were trying to implicate rather than help McCain so you can probably rule him and his supporters out. And this does not fit Huckabee’s character at all. So really its down to Romney himself, Giuliani, Thompson or one of their supporters like Pat Robertson.
Obviously, I personally think its Romney or Giuliani surrogates because they have the most to gain and they can afford it. Apparently this was a large poll and would therefore be costly.
As to Romney, consider this. Doesn’t this attack make it more difficult to raise questions about Mormonism? Its the victimhood trick. Its quite tough to ask the widow where she was the night her husband was murdered leaving her $1 million. And how long did it take to get around to questioning the Mccanns (sp?) about their daughter? This creates a shield for Romney in IA and NH, the two states most critical to his strategy.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
I’ll post an update on this later…
I just spoke to my source at Western Wats (a senior leader at the company)
He said the notion that this is Romney driven is “nonsense” and “ridiculous”.
He did not confirm or deny that the calls came from his firm… but his company employs 1500 people with centers is Idaho, Nebraska, Utah, and numerous other states.
He also indicated that this is being blown way out of proportion. He thinks if the details came out people would scratch their heads wondering what the big deal was.
November 16th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
Jared, I don’t think it’s an Evangelical group, maybe, but it seems to political and not enough religious. I would expect an anti-Mormon Evangelical group to use different words, and why would they be asking questions about McCain?
November 16th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
Throwing unsubstantiated mud at teh eeevil evangelicals, whoever they might be. You’re a conspiracy theorist, aren’t you?
November 16th, 2007 at 8:59 pm
Last call Metro,
Are we on? Deal or no deal?
November 16th, 2007 at 8:59 pm
cwpete, no deal, I said I’d put my money on an Evangelical group a few posts up. Also, since you know I think Romney does not deserve to be leading the GOP or serving in the White House, and would not vote for him in a general election, do you think I’d risk a deal in which my name was publicly associated with supporting his campaign?
November 16th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
Psycheout, huh? Many Evangelical groups have already DONE stuff like this.
November 16th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Western Watts seems to believe that this was an actual poll, so I would expect it to be from a pro-McCain group. A group that is trying to test what arguments for McCain people would respond best to, and what attacks against Romney would hurt him the most.
Once again, my first suspect is Swift-Boater Rick Reed, and his group Foundation for a Secure and Prosperous America.
Rick Reed was an ad maker for McCain
Rick Reed was part of the swift boat ads
Foundation for a Secure and Prosperous America was formed by McCain supporters
FSPA has been running pro-McCain ads in South Carolina
These polls are pro-McCain
It isn’t proof by any means, but that’s where I would start asking questions. It may be why McCain has come out so hard against this “attackâ€-to distance himself from it.
November 16th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
“I’m not saying it’s coming from Mitt’s campaign. But it’s coming from friends of Mitt.”
and
“I’d put my money this being an Evangelical group.”
You make no sense metro, is someone stealing your name?
November 16th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
Richard, I was musing about that based on the NRO and EyeOn08 stuff, shouldn’t have said it definitively. But I think it’s more likely an Evangelical group. Who knows? It’s all probabilities, anything is possible.
November 16th, 2007 at 9:08 pm
Justin,
Thank you for your attempts to get at the truth, but what this Western Wats guy was selling you is bunk. He essentially confirmed his company made the calls by saying who was not involved and that its being blown out of proportion. This is obviously information only someone involved would have.
I also find interesting WW’s willingness to rule out certain candidates. A real confidentialitly agreement would provide that no comment could be given because once you start ruling people out, you are actually ruling other people in.
November 16th, 2007 at 9:09 pm
“I think Romney does not deserve to be leading the GOP or serving in the White House, and would not vote for him in a general election, do you think I’d risk a deal in which my name was publicly associated with supporting his campaign?”
I could easily say the same thing about Rudy, but I won’t.
November 16th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
cwpete, it’s OK, Rudy completely transformed NYC for the better for its residents even though half of them irrationally screamed at him the whole way.
He’ll do the same for America, only some of you so-cons will be in that group along with the left.
November 16th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
I’d eliminate McCain for the reasons Feltcher gave above, and for the fact that he came out this morning with a formal complaint in NH because a push poll would break the law. He surely wouldn’t be dumb enough to do a number like that since he was involved in writing the law (assuming there’s a 527 behind it) and would know about the limits since he was hit by similar independent smears in 2000. Not to mention, his first press release on the thing was conciliatory by praising Mitt and inviting him to join in the legal complaint.
Rudy’s out, too, because it makes very little sense to place something like this just ahead of his press-grabbing Federalist Society shindig.
I don’t think Huck generally would, and he doesn’t have the cash to play games like this. Fred seems too principled and also wouldn’t stand to gain in either state as far as I can see.
Although an independent group seems most likely, Romney does seem best suited to profit from an excessively negative anti-Mormon smear as a disarming tactic, depending on how he uses it — and he so far has only used it to blast McCain who’s gaining on him in NH. More annoying still to my thinking is that a Romney-affiliated backer dumped a different pile on Fred not too long ago. It would seem someone in the Romney camp may be none too shy for tempting controversy to elevate the candidate.
November 16th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
“He said the notion that this is Romney driven is “nonsense†and “ridiculousâ€.
He did not confirm or deny that the calls came from his firm… but his company employs 1500 people with centers is Idaho, Nebraska, Utah, and numerous other states.
He also indicated that this is being blown way out of proportion. He thinks if the details came out people would scratch their heads wondering what the big deal was.”
Then I suspect he has some good answers for it. He definately knows what’s going on though, which means we will soon enough.
November 16th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
“Although an independent group seems most likely, Romney does seem best suited to profit from an excessively negative anti-Mormon smear as a disarming tactic, depending on how he uses it.”
You are crazy, Romney will be hurt by this if it wasn’t him and slaughtered if it was him. It is impossible that he did it. It’s a Utah company with employees that have contributed to his campaign for crying out loud. It’s pure nuts.
November 16th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Richard #106: It’s a Utah company with employees that have contributed to his campaign for crying out loud. It’s pure nuts.
True, an off-shore call center in the Philippines would be more logical if it were Romney. So it’s most likely not him. You got me.
Can’t help it sometimes. I just distrust the guy that much.
November 16th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
Update here:
http://www.mymanmitt.com/mitt-romney/2007/11/anti-mormon-gate.asp
November 16th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
At this point I would like to clarify, for the LDS folks, my distrust of Romney once and for all: I don’t distrust him because of the fact that he is a Mormon, although I see his faith as a real potential liability for a GOP candidate running in the general. I distrust him in spite of that fact. I distrust him because he’s human, a pol with a short and thin elected record, and apparently capable of making any claim for the purpose of getting elected.
November 16th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
I would. LOL.
I’d be really surprised if Romney’s campaign was within a mile of this. I may not like the guy, but I wouldn’t try to use this against him. I wouldn’t touch it with a 10 foot pole.
November 16th, 2007 at 10:27 pm
Funny you should mention Hugh Hewitt. I was listening to him on my drive home from work. When a caller asked Hugh to draw the line on an acceptable religion for a candidate, Hugh said the religion should be around at least 100 years (how arbitrary is that?). So Mitt’s old man George barely squeaked by in the 60’s as governor of MI, but had to wait half his life to be qualified.
November 16th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Metro,
As I was scanning the voting in the Race42008 poll the other night, which Mitt won, of course, I couldn’t help noticing that when you voted, you placed Romney 2nd on your list. Awfully decent of you, placing the good of the country ahead of your own emotional biases. Of course, I did the same for your guy.
November 16th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
Barely Sampo? The LDS church was officially founded in 1830 and Joseph Smith was already starting the church as early as 1819.
sounds like an arbitrary definition of barely.
November 16th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
MarkG,
Interesting that Mitt is probably the only politician in the country to ever keep every single campaign promise he made when he was running and this is the one guy you pick as untrustworthy! Is it because you don’t trust anybody who can’t be bought? What’s the logic?
November 16th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Metro, I think that an evangelical group far-right enough to attack Mitt would not be simultaneously praising McCain.
November 16th, 2007 at 11:08 pm
Attack Mitt for his Mormonism, that is.
November 16th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
Dave, you did not read very closely. Someone imitated me, adding an extra ‘n’ to my name. I said in the very next post that was an impostor. You know full well Romney is not anywhere near my 2nd.
November 16th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
Wow,
Mitt is now Metro’s second?
Cool man. Rudy is my second.
November 16th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
I’m guessing it was Dave or Jason who did it. Not going to let it bother me.
November 16th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
Metro,
Just Kavon for the IP address if someones impersonating you. Other than that, I am just happy to here you like Mitt so much now.
November 17th, 2007 at 9:32 am
This is the way the mob do their jobs.
November 17th, 2007 at 9:35 am
http://www.lizmair.com/blog.php?Index=288