RDH - OK. Thanks.
It is literally insane that no matter what Romney does… they attribute the absolute worst intentions. I thought Bush Derangement Syndrome was hard to deal with…
Am I keeping the issue alive? You bet. I’m offended by these calls and I want to get to the bottom of it.
I’m certainly not manufacturing this though. Do a Google News Search on “Western Wats” and see what I’ve created! Right. Its all my fault.
Real Deal,
Your paranoid delusional fantasies aside, no smoking gun has been found here. There are no fingerprints…no eye witnesses. What we have are rumors and worse. The “worse” part is where you and your ilk come in. There is nothing intelligent to say about this until we get something solid, at which time it makes sense to throw stones. Right now you are casting them at the innocent and the victimized, which has been in keeping with your modux operandi since you’ve been on the site.
You’re a loon. Western Wats is the biggest company of its type in the country. Using them is like the military using Haliburton - when they’re that big they’re going to get business from everyone. Only black-helicopter people see conspiracies in it.
Would anyone think this is a good scenario that played out for Mitt?
All the stories that aired about it drew attention to the questions that brought up a lot of perceived negatives on Romney (sons not in Military, “draft dodging”, etc . . . all of which are lame and hollow). Still, who wants all these negatives aired?
#8 I suppose by having the campaign manager respond it gets the message out without giving it the significance this political slime-throwing surely doesn’t deserve. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Huckabee is having a pretty good few weeks now, and responding himself only distracts his campaign and refocuses the public onto Romney. The campaign statement responds and the campaign moves on.
Here is what Roger Stone…A longtime GOP Consultant had to say…
Just as Bobby Kennedy was behind anti-Catholic calls and literature to Catholic Housholds in The 1960 Democratic Party. I smell a dirty trick. I suspect a Pro-Romney motive to inoculate against future use of the religious issue and to breed sympathy for Romney.
No respectable Republican polling firm like Tarrance would be involved with this.
PS- a 20 minute call is the work of a amatuer. The long call is designed to get ALL the negatives out, to put them off limits for future attacks.
Roger Stone’s first political involvement occurred at the age of 19 in the Watergate scandal, while working for the Committee to Re-Elect the President [5]. Stone used the alias “Jason Ranier”.
Logically, one must consider the Romney campaign along with all the others. Only McCain should be excluded because whoever did it tried to pin it on McCain. Of the remaining candidates we know Romney and Giuliani have ties to Western Wats, Romney having both personal and financial ties. One must also consider who benefits and again Romney is at the top of the list. To be blunt, its an old business school lesson - turn a disadvantage into an advantage. Its no longer Romney the mormon but Romney the victim. I might not be able to get a conviction on this circumstantial evidence, but I could definitely indict him.
I posted this elsewhere. In my opinion this group is the most likely culprit.
Whodunnit? A Michigan based 527 — I name names!
—————————
Everyone by now has heard about the Anti-Mormon push poll calls in IA and NH. But what we haven’t considered is why did the calls occur on 11/14 and suddenly stopped.
Consider this: According to campaign finance laws a 527 is free to advertise (which would include push polling) up to 60 days before the election. Which state’s primary election is likely going to occur 60+ days from the date these calls occurred? Let’s see, Michigan is going to hold a primary on 1/15. Hmmmmmm…………..
So the perpetrator has ties to Michigan and magically stopped these calls right before the 60 day deadline to avoid potential legal trouble. Also, let’s assume that this Michigan 527 is friendly with McCain since these calls put McCain in such a good light. Using these criteria, the circle of suspects become:
–Gary Glenn of the American Families Association in Michigan.
–Jerry Zandstra, leader of the Pro-Life Federation of Michigan and former member of Sam Brownback’s national steering committee (who is now supporting John McCain).
Now, both of these guys have supported Brownback and now are supporting McCain. Interesting, no? And guess who had an extra 300,000 to spend to fund this dialing operation? Yep, Brownback had some extra cash leftover from his presidential run. Bingo. Brownback has ties to these guys in Michigan, he is also supporting McCain, he has the motivation to slander Romney, and he had the money to fund this operation. McCain also can invoke plausible deniability. Pretty slick isn’t it?
Gary and Jerry then contact a Western Wats field office in Nebraska or Kansas and get them to “push poll”. And viola! You can blame those Mormons in Utah! The bigots eat it up!
Those are interesting possibilities. Gary Glenn has worked for numerous LDS candidates (at least according to himself) and would likely have contacts with a Utah Polling firm. Gary has been accused of as a McCain supporter for quite a while.
Jerry Zandstra is one in the same with Glenn. Actually I am pretty positive they share the same left hemisphere of the brain.
One thing I’d like to point out is how fast the RomNots switched from saying that the Mormon issue would devastate Romney in the General Election because he would be attacked to saying how much being attacked helps Romney.
“In Michigan, a few weeks ago, Gary Glenn, chairman of the Campaign For Michigan Families and strong pro-life advocate, sent out a list of his top 10 RINOs (Republican In Name Only) when dealing with abortion. McCain was NOT on the list. Interestingly, Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney topped Glenn’s list. Glenn: “(Romney is..) A politician who for a decade gives rhetorical aid, comfort, and legitimacy to the pro-”choice’ and “sexual orientation” movements should not be rewarded with the Republican presidential nomination”"
It’s a stupid question, when this is all over, and when we know exactly who did it, and everything is out in the open, there won’t be much to say.
If it is Romney supporters, and your prayers are answered, then I’m sure he’ll make a couple of post about how stupid it was and how we shouldn’t do crap like that, and about how much it hurt Romney. There’s not much more to say.
How many posts are you going to make for implicating Romney supporters when you turn out to be wrong?
#22/#35 - RDH - Just got back from having a life (you should try it sometime) - j/k
If if turns out to be someone directly connected to the Romney campaign it will be huge news and a black eye on the campaign that would almost be unrepairable. What Hugh Hewitt said was accurate. Whatever campaign is directly related to this will pretty much go down in flames.
I’ll report it far and wide.
I’m not sure how long you’ve been here… but I have a reputation for eating crow here when I’m called out.
“PREDICTION: If the calls’ instigator is ever discovered, it won’t be the Romney camp. Suggesting Romney is behind it is ludicrous. The question was too damning to offset any perceived gains in staging this. And if it’s an independent group, these groups are often mere surrogates for other campaigns — and whomever the group is supporting needs to be repudiated by being defeated during the Iowa vote.”
For the record, I did blame Giuliani at first and, like I said above, he is still a possibility. What made me pivot was Romney blaming McCain-Feingold. No one can explain this and from the news reports, reporters were just as puzzled. And it was an obvious attempt to once again drag McCain into it.
Ryan Lindorf does not do sales work. They are multiple associates in multiple offices who could sign up to do this work including offices in Kansas (Hello Brownback) and Nebraska. No good business operates with just one person being the bottleneck.
Tell me your background RDH… have you actually run or worked on any campaigns? Do you even know the research market at all? Do you know what it was that Lindorf actually founded? (hint the business school was founded in the 1970s, it wasn’t Lindorf who founded it)
Tell me this. Lindorf founded the company. It is the largest data collection firm in the world! (I just learned that)
They employ over 1500 people with numerous call centers across the country. They deal with hundreds of projects over a months time.
Do you really think that they call up the retired founder to ask him to approve every project?
Clients such as Blue Cross Blue Shield and GM use the firm. Do you really think it has an immediate associate with Mormons?
Is there an outlying chance that it was a Romney rogue consultant. Yes. But all my sources scoff at the idea.
there “will be those that ask, ‘how in the world could this happen? How is it that we don’t know who’s doing it?’”
“In that regard, you know, you have to look back at the legislation that is known as McCain-Feingold,” Romney said.
“The bill leaves an enormous, gaping loophole and says that if you form a 527 or 501c4 you don’t have to disclose who the donors are,” Romney said. “They can give an unlimited amount. The result of that legislation you’re seeing played out in politics today.”
Romney argued that the calls show “just how ineffective it has been in removing the influence of money and underhanded politics.”
Seems to me that Romney is saying tht McCain-Feingold is ineffective at removing the influence of money and underhanded politics.
I actually liked the first third of his response, less so the rest where he takes the opportunity to link the ordeal to McCain-Feingold.
And what makes Mitt so sure there’s a 527 or 501c4 behind it? Isn’t that kinda leaping to conclusions? What’s his evidence for that claim?
And no, it’s not similar to the anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. Those rely on the belief that worldwide Jewry already controls all money, all media, and all power. I don’t think anyone has yet advanced that hypothesis about LDSers on a comparable scale. Nor have Mormons to my knowledge been widely persecuted on the theory that they are some sort of anti- and/or superhuman villains unlike the rest of (Caucasian) mankind.
A brief defense of Brownback as mentioned in one of the previous conspiracy theories. He’s supporting McCain not marrying him, to do something that dumb and sleazy, something that could wreck his career to support for a candidate he was previously running against is insane.
Wasn’t it somebody from the Giuliani camp who first said they though it was a 527? Saying it is a 527 or 501c4 is basically saying he doesn’t think it was any of the campaigns.
One thing that I think is very important is that Western Watts (now famous) said from the start that this isn’t a “push poll�. If this poll wasn’t done by some rogue McCain supporters, I would think, that they would think, there is no way the public won’t interpret this as a push poll.
Either Western Watts is blatantly lying, or they have reason to believe the person or group that commissioned the poll would have some use for the data they collected. If it’s not a pro-McCain group, how are they going to claim this isn’t a push poll? Why in the earth would they put their reputation on the line by putting out a press release saying this wasn’t a push poll?
Western Wats doesn’t seem terribly sharp either. ‘No comment’ is a fairly simple and common business statement that they can’t quite grasp. If they have a non-disclosure agreement with their client (who ever it is) then their an incompetent business. I seriously doubt the credibility of their statements.
NDA’s are probably standard. It is in their best interest to state that they don’t do push polls, it goes to their credibility in the business they’re in. To claim that their an incompetent business ignores that their apparently the largest company of their type.
I still think if it wasn’t a pro-McCain group, they wouldn’t have a leg to stand of claiming it wasn’t a push poll.
That explanation doesn’t fly because it would mean the NH push polling statute could always be circumvented by claiming useful data was being collected. The dems could actually claim that the data was useful, but it still wouldn’t explain why McCain’s name was used. Also, Western Wats is known to have GOP ties and its unlikely a dem org would trust them to keep their confidence.
Its sad that this nonsense could actually change the election. And it will also inspire other groups to use dirty tactics.
I wasn’t referring to their ‘no push poll’ statement, but the statements that refer to the script not being that bad, and them apparently clearing Giuliani before deciding not to say anything about the other candidates. Maybe incompetent is harsh, but untrustworthy I think is fair.
Felcher, I’m trying to understand #53, but I’m not sure I understand what points you’re trying to make. The NH push poll statute doesn’t really apply to my argument. What I am saying is that Western Watts is claiming this isn’t a push poll. What they cite is the definition at this website: http://aapor.org/aaporstatementonpushpolls
This is part of the definition:
A “Push Poll� is not a Legitimate Poll
A so-called “push poll” is an insidious form of negative campaigning, disguised as a political poll. “Push pollsâ€? are not surveys at all, but rather unethical political telemarketing — telephone calls disguised as research that aim to persuade large numbers of voters and affect election outcomes, rather than measure opinions. This misuse of the survey method exploits the trust people have in research organizations and violates the AAPOR Code of Professional Ethics and Practices.
They claim they are doing “message-testing�. How in the world can they plausibly claim that they are doing pro-McCain “message-testing� for the Democrats? They would have to know, that if they were doing pro-McCain “message-testing� for an anti-McCain group that included anti-Romney messages, people would see through that and know it was a push poll. Then everyone would know that Western Watts was lying about it being “message-testing�, and it would destroy their reputation.
The claim that it’s “message testing� is to cover THEIR butts. The only way (I can think of) for this to be a plausible claim is if they are testing messages for a pro-McCain group.
I received a call like this Thursday night in South Carolina. It was more specifically John McCain positive, Mitt Romney negative. It was done by the Research Data Design Group.
Posted By Gary C, Boiling Springs, SC : November 18, 2007 12:46 am
November 17th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
What is a “Reaciton”?
November 17th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
RDH - OK. Thanks.
It is literally insane that no matter what Romney does… they attribute the absolute worst intentions. I thought Bush Derangement Syndrome was hard to deal with…
Am I keeping the issue alive? You bet. I’m offended by these calls and I want to get to the bottom of it.
I’m certainly not manufacturing this though. Do a Google News Search on “Western Wats” and see what I’ve created! Right. Its all my fault.
November 17th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
Real Deal,
Your paranoid delusional fantasies aside, no smoking gun has been found here. There are no fingerprints…no eye witnesses. What we have are rumors and worse. The “worse” part is where you and your ilk come in. There is nothing intelligent to say about this until we get something solid, at which time it makes sense to throw stones. Right now you are casting them at the innocent and the victimized, which has been in keeping with your modux operandi since you’ve been on the site.
November 17th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
RDH-
You’re a loon. Western Wats is the biggest company of its type in the country. Using them is like the military using Haliburton - when they’re that big they’re going to get business from everyone. Only black-helicopter people see conspiracies in it.
November 17th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
RDH,
Would anyone think this is a good scenario that played out for Mitt?
All the stories that aired about it drew attention to the questions that brought up a lot of perceived negatives on Romney (sons not in Military, “draft dodging”, etc . . . all of which are lame and hollow). Still, who wants all these negatives aired?
November 17th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Why are we hearing from Huckabee’s campaign manager, Chip Saltsman, and not Mike Huckabee?
Here’s the statement from his website,
“Statement from Chip Saltsman, National Campaign Manager Regarding Push Polling
November 17, 2007
“The Huckabee campaign does not condone this type of activity,” said Campaign Manager Chip Saltsman.
November 17th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Enough said. Romney hit it right on the head.
November 17th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
#8 I suppose by having the campaign manager respond it gets the message out without giving it the significance this political slime-throwing surely doesn’t deserve. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Huckabee is having a pretty good few weeks now, and responding himself only distracts his campaign and refocuses the public onto Romney. The campaign statement responds and the campaign moves on.
November 17th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
One McCain adviser, Chuck Douglas, said “we believe it is being done by one of the other campaigns. We don’t know which one.”
That’s a bold statement!
November 17th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
Jon Martin has come out and said that all the top people connected with Western Wats are BIG romney donors…Any Comments…?
November 17th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
All top WH officials are Jews and they planned 9/11. Any comments?
November 17th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
Here is what Roger Stone…A longtime GOP Consultant had to say…
Just as Bobby Kennedy was behind anti-Catholic calls and literature to Catholic Housholds in The 1960 Democratic Party. I smell a dirty trick. I suspect a Pro-Romney motive to inoculate against future use of the religious issue and to breed sympathy for Romney.
No respectable Republican polling firm like Tarrance would be involved with this.
PS- a 20 minute call is the work of a amatuer. The long call is designed to get ALL the negatives out, to put them off limits for future attacks.
STONE
November 17th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
Roger Stone is a Republican campaign consultant [1] and lobbyist from the United States.
He is described, depending on political viewpoint, as a “veteran political strategist” or a “long-time dirty tricks operative.”
you’re quoting-”a long-time dirty tricks operative”?
November 17th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
Roger Stone’s first political involvement occurred at the age of 19 in the Watergate scandal, while working for the Committee to Re-Elect the President [5]. Stone used the alias “Jason Ranier”.
November 17th, 2007 at 6:23 pm
Stone’s also a McCain backer-suprise!
November 17th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
Logically, one must consider the Romney campaign along with all the others. Only McCain should be excluded because whoever did it tried to pin it on McCain. Of the remaining candidates we know Romney and Giuliani have ties to Western Wats, Romney having both personal and financial ties. One must also consider who benefits and again Romney is at the top of the list. To be blunt, its an old business school lesson - turn a disadvantage into an advantage. Its no longer Romney the mormon but Romney the victim. I might not be able to get a conviction on this circumstantial evidence, but I could definitely indict him.
November 17th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Logic does not rule it out. It is perfect for McCain because he just fooled you!
November 17th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
I posted this elsewhere. In my opinion this group is the most likely culprit.
Whodunnit? A Michigan based 527 — I name names!
—————————
Everyone by now has heard about the Anti-Mormon push poll calls in IA and NH. But what we haven’t considered is why did the calls occur on 11/14 and suddenly stopped.
Consider this: According to campaign finance laws a 527 is free to advertise (which would include push polling) up to 60 days before the election. Which state’s primary election is likely going to occur 60+ days from the date these calls occurred? Let’s see, Michigan is going to hold a primary on 1/15. Hmmmmmm…………..
So the perpetrator has ties to Michigan and magically stopped these calls right before the 60 day deadline to avoid potential legal trouble. Also, let’s assume that this Michigan 527 is friendly with McCain since these calls put McCain in such a good light. Using these criteria, the circle of suspects become:
–Gary Glenn of the American Families Association in Michigan.
–Jerry Zandstra, leader of the Pro-Life Federation of Michigan and former member of Sam Brownback’s national steering committee (who is now supporting John McCain).
Now, both of these guys have supported Brownback and now are supporting McCain. Interesting, no? And guess who had an extra 300,000 to spend to fund this dialing operation? Yep, Brownback had some extra cash leftover from his presidential run. Bingo. Brownback has ties to these guys in Michigan, he is also supporting McCain, he has the motivation to slander Romney, and he had the money to fund this operation. McCain also can invoke plausible deniability. Pretty slick isn’t it?
Gary and Jerry then contact a Western Wats field office in Nebraska or Kansas and get them to “push poll”. And viola! You can blame those Mormons in Utah! The bigots eat it up!
November 17th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
NOwandater,
Those are interesting possibilities. Gary Glenn has worked for numerous LDS candidates (at least according to himself) and would likely have contacts with a Utah Polling firm. Gary has been accused of as a McCain supporter for quite a while.
Jerry Zandstra is one in the same with Glenn. Actually I am pretty positive they share the same left hemisphere of the brain.
November 17th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
One thing I’d like to point out is how fast the RomNots switched from saying that the Mormon issue would devastate Romney in the General Election because he would be attacked to saying how much being attacked helps Romney.
November 17th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
I should Glenn so lived in Idaho as an acivist prior to living in Michigan.
November 17th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
“In Michigan, a few weeks ago, Gary Glenn, chairman of the Campaign For Michigan Families and strong pro-life advocate, sent out a list of his top 10 RINOs (Republican In Name Only) when dealing with abortion. McCain was NOT on the list. Interestingly, Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney topped Glenn’s list. Glenn: “(Romney is..) A politician who for a decade gives rhetorical aid, comfort, and legitimacy to the pro-”choice’ and “sexual orientation” movements should not be rewarded with the Republican presidential nomination”"
November 17th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
*that quote is from October or September of last year.
November 17th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
Why I Am Endorsing Sen. John McCain
By Dr Jerry Zandstra, Red State
October 30, 2007
November 17th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
It’s a stupid question, when this is all over, and when we know exactly who did it, and everything is out in the open, there won’t be much to say.
If it is Romney supporters, and your prayers are answered, then I’m sure he’ll make a couple of post about how stupid it was and how we shouldn’t do crap like that, and about how much it hurt Romney. There’s not much more to say.
How many posts are you going to make for implicating Romney supporters when you turn out to be wrong?
November 17th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
#22/#35 - RDH - Just got back from having a life (you should try it sometime) - j/k
If if turns out to be someone directly connected to the Romney campaign it will be huge news and a black eye on the campaign that would almost be unrepairable. What Hugh Hewitt said was accurate. Whatever campaign is directly related to this will pretty much go down in flames.
I’ll report it far and wide.
I’m not sure how long you’ve been here… but I have a reputation for eating crow here when I’m called out.
cheers.
November 17th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
“PREDICTION: If the calls’ instigator is ever discovered, it won’t be the Romney camp. Suggesting Romney is behind it is ludicrous. The question was too damning to offset any perceived gains in staging this. And if it’s an independent group, these groups are often mere surrogates for other campaigns — and whomever the group is supporting needs to be repudiated by being defeated during the Iowa vote.”
http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/john-mccain/16128/bigotry-2007-state-investigates-anti-mormon-anti-romney-iowa-push-poll-calls/
November 17th, 2007 at 7:02 pm
For the record, I did blame Giuliani at first and, like I said above, he is still a possibility. What made me pivot was Romney blaming McCain-Feingold. No one can explain this and from the news reports, reporters were just as puzzled. And it was an obvious attempt to once again drag McCain into it.
November 17th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
Ryan Lindorf does not do sales work. They are multiple associates in multiple offices who could sign up to do this work including offices in Kansas (Hello Brownback) and Nebraska. No good business operates with just one person being the bottleneck.
November 17th, 2007 at 7:17 pm
Tell me your background RDH… have you actually run or worked on any campaigns? Do you even know the research market at all? Do you know what it was that Lindorf actually founded? (hint the business school was founded in the 1970s, it wasn’t Lindorf who founded it)
Tell me this. Lindorf founded the company. It is the largest data collection firm in the world! (I just learned that)
They employ over 1500 people with numerous call centers across the country. They deal with hundreds of projects over a months time.
Do you really think that they call up the retired founder to ask him to approve every project?
Clients such as Blue Cross Blue Shield and GM use the firm. Do you really think it has an immediate associate with Mormons?
Is there an outlying chance that it was a Romney rogue consultant. Yes. But all my sources scoff at the idea.
My money is on the dems.
November 17th, 2007 at 7:21 pm
there “will be those that ask, ‘how in the world could this happen? How is it that we don’t know who’s doing it?’”
“In that regard, you know, you have to look back at the legislation that is known as McCain-Feingold,” Romney said.
“The bill leaves an enormous, gaping loophole and says that if you form a 527 or 501c4 you don’t have to disclose who the donors are,” Romney said. “They can give an unlimited amount. The result of that legislation you’re seeing played out in politics today.”
Romney argued that the calls show “just how ineffective it has been in removing the influence of money and underhanded politics.”
Seems to me that Romney is saying tht McCain-Feingold is ineffective at removing the influence of money and underhanded politics.
November 17th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
Justin, but it’s so much more fun for them to blame “Mormons”.
I heard a woman works at the firm-now I think it was Hillary!
November 17th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
I actually liked the first third of his response, less so the rest where he takes the opportunity to link the ordeal to McCain-Feingold.
And what makes Mitt so sure there’s a 527 or 501c4 behind it? Isn’t that kinda leaping to conclusions? What’s his evidence for that claim?
And no, it’s not similar to the anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. Those rely on the belief that worldwide Jewry already controls all money, all media, and all power. I don’t think anyone has yet advanced that hypothesis about LDSers on a comparable scale. Nor have Mormons to my knowledge been widely persecuted on the theory that they are some sort of anti- and/or superhuman villains unlike the rest of (Caucasian) mankind.
November 17th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
A brief defense of Brownback as mentioned in one of the previous conspiracy theories. He’s supporting McCain not marrying him, to do something that dumb and sleazy, something that could wreck his career to support for a candidate he was previously running against is insane.
November 17th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
Wasn’t it somebody from the Giuliani camp who first said they though it was a 527? Saying it is a 527 or 501c4 is basically saying he doesn’t think it was any of the campaigns.
November 17th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
“He’s supporting McCain not marrying him”
funny.
I find it hard to imagine any of the campaigns would be directly involved, even Brownbacks.
November 17th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
One thing that I think is very important is that Western Watts (now famous) said from the start that this isn’t a “push poll�. If this poll wasn’t done by some rogue McCain supporters, I would think, that they would think, there is no way the public won’t interpret this as a push poll.
Either Western Watts is blatantly lying, or they have reason to believe the person or group that commissioned the poll would have some use for the data they collected. If it’s not a pro-McCain group, how are they going to claim this isn’t a push poll? Why in the earth would they put their reputation on the line by putting out a press release saying this wasn’t a push poll?
November 17th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
Western Wats doesn’t seem terribly sharp either. ‘No comment’ is a fairly simple and common business statement that they can’t quite grasp. If they have a non-disclosure agreement with their client (who ever it is) then their an incompetent business. I seriously doubt the credibility of their statements.
November 17th, 2007 at 8:23 pm
NDA’s are probably standard. It is in their best interest to state that they don’t do push polls, it goes to their credibility in the business they’re in. To claim that their an incompetent business ignores that their apparently the largest company of their type.
I still think if it wasn’t a pro-McCain group, they wouldn’t have a leg to stand of claiming it wasn’t a push poll.
November 17th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
bjalder26,
That explanation doesn’t fly because it would mean the NH push polling statute could always be circumvented by claiming useful data was being collected. The dems could actually claim that the data was useful, but it still wouldn’t explain why McCain’s name was used. Also, Western Wats is known to have GOP ties and its unlikely a dem org would trust them to keep their confidence.
Its sad that this nonsense could actually change the election. And it will also inspire other groups to use dirty tactics.
November 17th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
I wasn’t referring to their ‘no push poll’ statement, but the statements that refer to the script not being that bad, and them apparently clearing Giuliani before deciding not to say anything about the other candidates. Maybe incompetent is harsh, but untrustworthy I think is fair.
November 17th, 2007 at 9:48 pm
Felcher, I’m trying to understand #53, but I’m not sure I understand what points you’re trying to make. The NH push poll statute doesn’t really apply to my argument. What I am saying is that Western Watts is claiming this isn’t a push poll. What they cite is the definition at this website: http://aapor.org/aaporstatementonpushpolls
This is part of the definition:
A “Push Poll� is not a Legitimate Poll
A so-called “push poll” is an insidious form of negative campaigning, disguised as a political poll. “Push pollsâ€? are not surveys at all, but rather unethical political telemarketing — telephone calls disguised as research that aim to persuade large numbers of voters and affect election outcomes, rather than measure opinions. This misuse of the survey method exploits the trust people have in research organizations and violates the AAPOR Code of Professional Ethics and Practices.
They claim they are doing “message-testing�. How in the world can they plausibly claim that they are doing pro-McCain “message-testing� for the Democrats? They would have to know, that if they were doing pro-McCain “message-testing� for an anti-McCain group that included anti-Romney messages, people would see through that and know it was a push poll. Then everyone would know that Western Watts was lying about it being “message-testing�, and it would destroy their reputation.
The claim that it’s “message testing� is to cover THEIR butts. The only way (I can think of) for this to be a plausible claim is if they are testing messages for a pro-McCain group.
November 18th, 2007 at 1:38 am
2008.GOP.NOM.MCCAIN
John McCain to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 6.2 7.6 6.0 152748 -1.9
——————–
——————–
It is curious that McCain has taken a big hit on Intrade, no?
November 18th, 2007 at 3:11 am
Justin:
Just in case you don’t see this on a dead thread:
Just found this at CNN:
I received a call like this Thursday night in South Carolina. It was more specifically John McCain positive, Mitt Romney negative. It was done by the Research Data Design Group.
Posted By Gary C, Boiling Springs, SC : November 18, 2007 12:46 am