December 12, 2007
Luntz: Romney wins in a romp. Positive and substantive.
Was There a Conspiracy Against Rudy and McCain? [Kathryn Jean Lopez]
Mitt won – sounded presidential, competent, made a case for himself, and was optimistic but realistic about the threats we face.He’s hit his stride. (Yes, you’re shocked I’d say that.)Fred had his first great performance – if anyone watched this debate it should help him.Where were Rudy and McCain? I heard much more Keyes and Paul. Ridiculous.What an awful debate. Ratings will plummet for the Dem debate – so all 10 of us watching this will be drinking egg nog or somesuch tomorrow.
More from the Corner
Bread-and-Butter Mitt [Rich Lowry]
The economy, health care, education, and values-he comes back to all those at every opportunity. A very strong performance today so far, I think (and one that has benefited from not directly attacking Huckabee, but instead staying positive and relying on voters to get the difference themselves).
The Debate [Seth Leibsohn]
Mitt having a great afternoon in Iowa-sounding most presidential….But Fred did well…..he’s running third, a distant third, my guess is after today he’ll be running a less distant third.
http://race42008.com/2007/12/12/luntz-romney-wins-in-a-romp-positive-and-substantive/trackback/
December 12th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
A whole day and no posts by Rett, wonder where he’s gone off to?
December 12th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
I disagree with Rich Lowry. Letting Huck off without hitting him is a big mistake. Look at Huck in GA, Huck in MI. Huck is going up in states that he hasn’t campaigned in.
Romney will regret not hitting Huck in the last chance to do so face to face.
December 12th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Romney doesn’t need to hit back. With so many shots-in-the-foot Huck has self-inflicted, He’s basicly a lame duck.
December 12th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
With everyone staying positive he would have looked horrible had he swipped at Huck.
December 12th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Hopefully Fred doing well brings Huck back down a bit.
December 12th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
If Huck dies soon Fred will pick up those votes and become a contender.
December 12th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
No matter how you try to slant things in your post-debate analysis, there is no argument about who had the most stories and jokes. Enough of the discussion about issues – we want someone who can gather us all around and tell us a funny story and make us feel good.
Go Mike Go!!!
December 12th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
The Huck-a-BUST is coming…..Jan. 3rd!!
Bye, Bye …. Huck-a-Bye
December 12th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
FCOH – Why are you here again? please stop the charade! This is getting old…
December 12th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Abe…can you [PLEASE] stop posting that in every thread? It’s a bit annoying. We get it. You don’t like huckabee, and you think he’ll have a Huck-a-BUST.
December 12th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
December 12th, 2007 at 3:52 pm
I feel sooooo good. Huck makes me laugh soooooo much. Now if I could just pretend that he wasn’t 25 points behind Edwards (60-35)everything would be just fine. If I could just pretend he wasn’t bashing the Reagan coalition to pieces by calling capitalists the “club for greed” everything would be just fine.
Mitt has already taken the dive by attacking Huck with his TV commercial. His chestnuts are already in the attack Huck fire. He missed an opportunity to hit. The media will not cover a strong over all positive performeance You need a big hit to get big TV coverage.
December 12th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
I laugh every time Abe says that. Keep it up!
He’s the only Romney (i think) supporter who hasn’t been all gloomy when the bad stories have come in.
Faithful Abe.
December 12th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
9 – I’m here because I care deeply about this nation and I refuse to sit idly by when there is a real opportunity to be involved in the process. I’m here to do what I can to maintain a lively discussion and to help keep it all in perspective.
December 12th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
Huckabee’s stories, parables, jokes etc. are getting old for me pretty quickly.
I thought Romney bombed the first question but was top-notch on the subsequent questions.
Thompson was good today. It’s a shame that Huckabee has been doing so well while Thompson has been sinking. Thompson would make a great president.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
Romney and Thompson did well, McCain was fine, but Huckabee won because no one laid a glove on him. It wasn’t his best performance, but he wins by not losing.
Keyes is an embarrassment, but he did attack Giuliani and Romney as I predicted.
One of the worst moments of the debate was when the candidates were asked whether social conservatism or fiscal conservatism would be more important. All of them gave the wishy-washy answer that both would be important, when the only honest answer was fiscal. That was pure pandering, but they all did it.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
Prediction:
An immediate 2-3 point rise for Romney based on his performance.
An immediate 5+ point increase for Fred based on his performance.
A 4 – 7 point drop for Mikey.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Can someone explain to me how Justin Hart posting commentary from NRO is any different from posting from his own website? Who do you expect them to support?
December 12th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
Irish,
I disagree. I think the only movement we’ll see out of such a dull debate is margin of error stuff. Huck a little down, Mitt and Fred a little up. Little being about 1 percentage point. McCain and Rudy stagnant.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
#17, No debate has caused that much movement. Because of the timing this won’t be viewed by many people.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Joseph D.,
Thanks alot…
What is annoying is people slandering religions in a political debate….
Or supporting people who slander religions…..
THE HUCK-A-BUST IS COMING!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 12th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
My logic, Matthew (and I appreciate your opinion) is that Fred did so well that he will get 2 – 3 percent from the Fredheads that have gone over to Huckabee. Nothing is in a vacuum, but with all the negatives swirling around Huck, he’s got to go down.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
Let’s see if he can translate that into a general election strategy: “I’ll win by making the other guy look so much worse.”
Too bad for Huck his true side is shining through.
By the way, you may not have noticed, but when Huck said “I have the best record of anybody here on Immigration” didn’t you see how Romney turned to him standing right there and said essentially: I don’t think so.
Huckabee’s Record: Barely cracking 5th to LAST in the nation.
Romney’s Record: Number one in all levels–with Stats to prove it.
Huckabee looked like a jack-ass (to use a biblical term) saying he had the best record when EVERYBODY KNEW he was totally pulling it out of his rear end. The Romney couldn’t resist, and the audience erupted in laugter.
Jester Huckabee humiliated.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
And, of course, I’m only talking about the Iowa numbers
December 12th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
#18 – Frank Luntz is not supporting any candidate – nice try
December 12th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
another debate, and now more then ever its obvious only rudy can win in november. romney will lose a landslide, huck would do only slightly better, and it would be a miracle if thompson with one foot in the grave made it to november. rudy is our only shot at keeping the WH, romney is mondale, and its more apparent now then ever. 4 years after bashing a massachusetts flip flopper out of the race, we’re gonna nominate a….massachusetts flip flopper?!?!? its rudy or bust.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Well said Joseph #23, well said.
The primary audience to this debate are the Iowa Republicans. As such, I would expect any poll movements to be larger in IA.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
23: I meant Education not immigration, but that would apply as well.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2346/2106496192_01bef9325b_o.jpg
This pic is where I see the candidates sitting and where they draw their support from.. it tracks fairly well with the current Ras numbers
I think after SC and certainly after Supertuesday there will be only 3 candidates left. And how the support will drift to the 3 remaining
Rudy = 20 + 4 (half John) = 24
Mitt = 14 + 4 (half John) + 8 (most of Fred) = 26
Huck = 23 + 2 (some of Fred) = 25
This is why I think the convention will be very interesting.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Matt, come out of cloud coo coo land for one moment, Please?
December 12th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
romney did okay, but i am looking for the candidate with the most jokes. also, romney did not mention the red sea once!
December 12th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
matt #26,
Go light up & then have a view of Brenden’s link to that pic. Then let us know if that changes your views any..
I hear Metro has some good smoke..
December 12th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
If we wait until the convention, we will lose! The Dems will have their nominee chosen long before our convention which will hurt us. We need to come out Tuesday with our nomineed. Rudy or Mitt.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
UPDATED WITH VERY AWESOME VIDEO. SEE ABOVE
I’m sure everyone here had the same reaction right?
December 12th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Oh goodness gracious, Mitt didn’t win. Not by a long-shot. He got slammed from many different sides as a flip-flopper, an actor, and untrustworthy. He didn’t know whether to respond when given the opportunity; he looked smarmy and self-righteous, and his background as an elitist was on full display.
McCain and Giuliani had the best nights tonight, and Thompson didn’t do so bad. Huckabee didn’t have a great night, but he didn’t slip up or have any bad spots either.
All in all, this debate didn’t change much, except to leave me wondering, “what exactly ARE Tancredo and Hunter still doing in this race, anyway? And why does anyone still acknowledge their presence in it?”
December 12th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Oh, my goodness, can you see the next contrast ad now. “Mike Huckabee claims to have the best record on education…”
December 12th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
20, it might have moved numbers had all the network and cable news stories were about how Fred or Mitt busted Huck’s glass jaw. The candidates chose not to risk it, so the debate is meaningless.
Mitt might have a winning scenario consistent with being cautious. Fred really doesn’t. Fred should have hammered Huck in the debate.
Here is Huck’s scenario: Win in IA (where he is ahead), win in SC (where he is ahead) and win in FL (where he is behind by 12 to Rudy, who will probably not win anything before FL, so Huck might have momentum going to FL.
It will be too late to stop Huck if he wins IA, SC and FL. 12 points in FL is all that CURRENTLY separates Huck from the nomination, and that is all that separates the Republican party from a McGovernesque blowout next November. Come eyeball to eyeball with President Hillary or President B. Hussein Obama. We better get serious about stopping Huck.
Its up to the other candidates to attempt to change Huck’s scenario, and I think they missed a chance by not attacking him in the debate.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
I disagree completely with Feltcher about Huck winning. Huck was positively incoherent at numerous junctures tonight. His answer about two policies his faith would cause him to change was bewildering, rambling, and nonsensical. I also think Huckabee, as a minister, benefits from an active audience, that can respond; he plays off the audience. Given the nature of the debate, he just seemed flat and out of his league. Romney, on the other hand, performs infinitely better when speaking in a vacuum (stump speeches where people are particularly attentive, interviews, etc). That probably has something to do with the fact that, as a CEO, he was used to briefing and lecturing people, not playing to a crowd’s emotions and passions. I think Huck definitely lost tonight. It was his second weakest debate performance in my opinion. I rated McCain below him, but that’s partly a style thing; McCain has to have a really good night for his odd laconic/crotchety style to work. He didn’t tonight.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Gonna have to catch the debate on replay tonight.
I usually take Luntz with a grain of salt, but can’t say I mind the 10% -> 70% shift to Mitt in that little clip.
I’ve been a Mitt backer for quite some time, I think he will end up being the consensus candidate come Sept, as Rudy and Huck are diametrically opposed, it will be hard for their supporters to do anything but consider Mitt sitting between them.
The other possible scenario are Mitt’s supporters splitting to either side, my gut says Rudy get the edge, but it’s a toss up.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
That “focus group” was so biased!!!!! Everyone else said Huckabee one.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
My 2 shekels, for what it’s worth. . .
I agree that Romney won. As someone who officially joined his campaign yesterday, I was quite pleased with what I saw today.
I don’t like Huck, and these past few days solidified that opinion.
Duncan Hunter is my favorite candidate I will never vote for.
Alan Keyes made even Ron Paul seem Reaganesque.
Fred Thompson would be far and away the leader of this race had today’s debate been 6 or 8 months ago. Unfortunately for him I think it’s too late. I’m afraid for McCain, it’s too late as well, which is a shame since he was my guy early on (and throughout 2000).
Tom Tancredo? Isn’t he a Congressman or something? Really, he’s running for president? Hmmm.
Rudy is still in the lead nationally but he needs to do more to stand out, not sit on the sidelines and coast on his national poll numbers. In a Mitt vs. Huck battle, one of them will come out ahead, and will be a much stronger opponant for Rudy heading into the Southern states.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:29 pm
I was going for Huck up until a few days ago, when he started
to get really dirty with his politics. Then today confirmed it
this guy is clueless on the issues and weak on everything. My suppport
just shifted to Mitt.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
Earth to ben in Cloud Coo Coo Land?
I guess you would rather have had the CNN focus group which was solidly split between Huckabee. . . and . . . John Edwards.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
“That “focus group†was so biased!!!!! Everyone else said Huckabee one”.
Everyone else, as in “Pastors for Huckabee”?
December 12th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
The Luntz focus group almost unanimously indicated that they felt Romney won the debate. I knew I was sure he had, but I may be a little biased. It looks like most people on here believe Mitt won. I think Thompson was second. Mitt was amazingly articulate and fluent with his answers, almost as if he knew what was going to be asked, and the length of time for the answer ahead of time
December 12th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
Ben, nobody else is saying that Huckabee won. He was incoherent, scared and scary. The focus groups of undecded voters gave us the real idea. These are people who are not political junkines. These are people that represent your average voter.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
For those of you who do not want Huck to get the nomination. There is only one way to do that. Two candidates would need to team up before or shortly after IA. Short of that he will walk.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
I don’t agree with Luntz he think Romney wins the debate. Problem with
Romney he has a negative campaign, negative campaign ads, and he will have
the voter’s problem in the South. He flip-flopped every issues and he
is not conservative. Romney sounded like a “liberal Democrat”.
Very disappointed with the National Review endorses Romney and the
editors should check his records to find out what he stands for. In the NC primary
polls Romney is in the fifth place while Huckabee move up in the
first place. If he does get the nominee for the Republican Party, we
will lose the election.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
40 – I agree that this focus group was biased. If you pause the video and zoom in, it is so obvious that fox rigged strings down from the ceiling and then on queue forced them all to raise their hands to say Mitt won. Come on people- open your eyes to the bias here. In fact, you can see 20 strings hanging down clear as day.
Huckabee should have won. The problem (aside from the biased focus group) was that he looked like a deer caught in the headlights. He was sweating bullets and it was clear to all. All of his jokes went over like a lead balloon.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Huckabee moved up about 6-8 points nationally after the last debate. Does anyone expect that sort of sea change this time around? If anything, I expect today’s debate just muddled the field. Maybe Rudy goes down a tick. Huck goes down more. Mitt and Fred both rise, perhaps in equal proportion. All 4 of them have some juice now; McCain is the odd man out. But, nothing today will set the world on fire. The next few weeks will be fascinating.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Sorry Michael, We wont fall into that trap. Huck chose to swim in the deep waters with the big boys. He didn’t realize that the U.S. media were a lot more savvy than the people in AR. Now he is drowning in the first week where he gains even a little notoriety.
Romney, Giuliani, and Thompson are just going to sit by and watch the Huckster drown. Romney doesn’t have to push him under–he is already barely treading water. Just a few more days.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
48 – The sky is falling if Mitt wins!!!!!
December 12th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
I doubt today’s debate will have much of an impact. It was in the middle of the day and frankly, the whole debate was just plain weird.
I did think Romney did very well though, so I give him props there. I really enjoyed Huckabee on Fox News immediately after the debate when he was interviewed.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:43 pm
was it biased in the last debate who crowned huckabee the clear winner? whiner
December 12th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
Standing nine fellas up and asking them to give a 60-second-or-less soundbite on a brief question is not a debate. No issues were really explored or debated.
This really should include a tighter selection criteria, or even two different groups.
So now with Fox’s full backing, I expect Romney to win in IA with at least a 20-point lead over his nearest competitor, or it’ll honestly have to go down as a devastating Romney loss.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
I think Mitt won the debate today, but that does not make me a Romney supporter.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
And Mary, just what makes you so much smarter than those ignoramuses over at NR? Did you get a degree in philosophy from Harvard, or have you been writing about Politics and economics for more than 40 years?
December 12th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
Is mary new? What negative campaign ads? “flip-flopped” EVERY issue?? What?? Nice hyperbole. It won’t work here. Go back to moveon.org.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
51, you say “He (Huckabee) is drowing in the first week where he gains even a little notoriety.”
Actually, today Huckabee hit 23% on the Rasumussen daily national tracking poll, which is his highest number ever.
A week of not so good media attention, and he still hits a new high. You can hope, like I do, that he will begin to fade. But when you say all that has to be done is sit by and watch for Huck to “drown”, you are mistaken. The only way he will drown is if someone trys to push his head under water, and no one even tried to do that in this debate. If none of the candidates want to risk the backlash of going negative before it is too late, Huck will win the nomination.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
#58, Check the Washington Post. The issues are clear there. The segment entitled the Fact Checker. Romney did poorly.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
Come on people- open your eyes to the bias here. In fact, you can see 20 strings hanging down clear as day.
Most likely the case, and it was probably the Romney campaign fund that financed the rig.
All in all, as I’ve said in another thread, if this isn’t rigged then it only proves the bigotry that they have
for Mike Huckabee if they don’t support him, and that’s mostly the case for those of you here who slam Mr. Huckabee.
The Nation will never get anywhere with people showing such hatred and bigotry for good Christian people like
Mike Huckabee.
You who are against Mr. Huckabee need to ask God to forgive you, because you’re letting Satan cause you to do
irrational thinking…
You need to seek wisdom from God and NOT I repeat NOT your conscience, people who rely on what everybody else says,
will get this Nation in big trouble.
~ Jeremiah
December 12th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Jeremiah
You mean “The Baptist Bigot” Huckster. I don’t think so.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
58 – Mary’s new – she’s part of Huck’s Army here to take down Mitt
December 12th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
62 – no he’s refering to Mike Huck-a-bigot… this is too easy…
December 12th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
John,
Huckabee is not a bigot. Sheesh.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Mary has been hopping on for a while now suggesting that Mitt can’t win since he’s not winning North Carolina. She has suggested that the result in NC shows Romney with a “Southern problem”. I’ve asked her to explain what that problem is, since prior to the recent Huckaboom, Mitt had gone into the lead in South Carolina, which is arguably more conservative (and certainly more Southern) than her state is.
She has neglected to respond to that request.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
Jeremiah, are you for real?!
December 12th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Huck-a-Bigot LOL I love it!!
December 12th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
You mean “The Baptist Bigot†Huckster. I don’t think so.
John,
Now what did I say?
I’m referring to the people who are saying negative things about Mike Huckabee, they should be ashamed of
themselves and learn to be quiet!!!
~ Jeremiah
December 12th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
#66, Romney does have a southern problem. I know no-one who is supporting Romney, and I am involved with most of the major oil comapnies and large engineering firms. Even the business people here don’t like him.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
I need to give Jeremiah posting rights on my blog site – he’d fit right in
December 12th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
I’m having trouble telling apart some of the real Huckabee folks from the posers trying to sound insane. Not good.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Jeremiah, oh great prophet, I have a question for you. Given that you can see into the future and I cant, what will be the results of a Huckabee-Edwards race in November 2008?
The shameful reprobates at CNN have a poll that says 60% for Edwards and 35% for Huckabee.
Since you are a prophet that can see in the future, why don’t you enlighten us mere mortals?
December 12th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Jeremiah, I just visited your website. Very interesting. Psychout is one of the authors. He posts comments here sometimes.
And Michael (70) at what level are you involved with most of the major oil companies and large engineering firms?
And if you are involved in such a big way, why aren’t you working today? Seems like someone with all your “involvement” wouldn’t have time to sit around and put comments on a political blog during a work day?
I’m seriously interested in how you juggle it all?
December 12th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
[...] The National Review Online Flacks (National Review endorsed Mitt Romney yesterday – cancel my subscription) are all running round saying that Slick Mitt won. [...]
December 12th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
all this nonsense is going to push regular posters like me far away – which some of you Rombots might like!
December 12th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
Hey (75), the endorsement had the opposite affect on me!
I subscribed to National Review for the first time (especially requesting that my first issue be the one with Mitt’s picture on the front).
December 12th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
I’m trying to figure out whether Jeremiah was joking or not!! Either way, its equally funny!!
December 12th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
ron paul has an interview on the Situation Room in a few minutes
December 12th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
why don’t you enlighten us mere mortals?
Quacky,
I’m not a “fortune-teller”, the only thing I can do is go by what the Word of God says, and in His Word He says,
Any Nation that turns its back on Almighty God will be turned into Hell.
Now remember, that’s not me speaking, that’s your Maker!! The Man in charge!!
~ Jeremiah
December 12th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Mary are you dating Metro? Or somehow related?
December 12th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
Jeremiah -
Can you rate the GOP candidates according to your quote “Any Nation that turns its back on Almighty God will be turned into Hell.”
For example, these candidates will most likely turn the nations back on God and these ones are less likely to turn the nations back on God.
Thank you
December 12th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
By Doug Thompson
Arkansas News Bureau
LITTLE ROCK – Gov. Mike Huckabee Thursday denounced a bill by Sen. Jim Holt that would deny state benefits to illegal immigrants as un-Christian, un-American, irresponsible and anti-life.
http://www.arkansasnews.com/archive/2005/01/28/News/316347.html
Huckabee thinks its “un Christian” do deny welfare to illegal aliens.
Regarless of whether or not Huckabee is a bigot, Huckabee thinks you are a bigot unless you favor welfare for illegal aliens.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
(61) Jeremiah, you said: “The Nation will never get anywhere with people showing such hatred and bigotry for good Christian people like Mike Huckabee.
You who are against Mr. Huckabee need to ask God to forgive you, because you’re letting Satan cause you to do irrational thinking…”
You know, Jeremiah, I was wondering if Satan may have caused Huckabee to have a little bit of irrational thinking when it comes to the Dumond case.
The Parole Board members said, on the news this last week, that Huckabee came to meet with them, asking all but the board members to leave and then Huckabee brought up the subject of paroling Dumond. He said Dumond had come from the other side of the tracks, etc. and would they please consider paroling him? They felt pressured to vote in favor of a parole for Dumond.
Huckabee said, on national t.v. recently, that the Parole Board brought it up to him.
The Parole Board, according to Huckabee, brought up the subject of Dumond and were asking Huckabee if he thought they should consider giving him parole?
Hmmmm.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
Huckanomics:
Huckabee thinks illegal aliens are “subsidizing” taxpaying American citizens:
“Huckabee said he took exception to characterization of immigrants in the bill and by its supporters as exploiters of social programs. “They pay sales taxes on their groceries,” Huckabee said. “They pay fuel taxes. If they’re using a fake Social Security number, they’re paying Social Security taxes and will never receive any benefit. It would be closer to the truth to say they’re subsidizing Joe McCutchen and Jim Holt more than the other way around.”
http://www.arkansasnews.com/archive/2005/01/28/News/316347.html
December 12th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
How in the world could have Huckabee been stupid enough to claim his record on education was the best? Romney should have punched him right in the gut after telling his own record by reminding everyone that after 10 years of Governorship, Huckabee’s state was 48th or 49th in education. But Mitt took the high road. I just hope everyone knew how big a lie Huckabee tried to tell.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
My $0.02 is that there were two losers: Huckabee and the Moderator.
Huckabee could have used his last 15 seconds (where candidates were able to express a New Year’s resolution for another candidate) to turn to Mitt and say, “Mitt, my resolution for you is that you accept my apology to you and members of your church for what was reported in the papers today (elaborate a bit)â€. Instead he referred to himself and said that he would be a bit more careful about what he said in the future. When pressed on what he would have for a resolution for another candidate he mumbled something to the effect, “well then I wish it for themâ€. It was the last moment for him and it wasn’t his finest. Mitt’s response in contrast was perfect and right after Huckabee’s. We come together as a party and defeat the Democrats, was Mitt’s response.
The moderator lost control (and Thompson showed what a leader he was) when Thompson refused to do a hand vote on global warming. All the other candidates followed Fred. (He really should have entered the race much earlier. I think he’s getting punished for not being involved since April, but I digress.) She didn’t remain in control. The second vote against the moderator was that, in my mind, she should have given Mitt two opportunities to respond, one where in Huckabee’s video he seemed to disparage Mitt’s speech on faith last week, and two when Mitt was confronted on a military company’s purchase which Bain Capital was involved with that looks like it’s now selling to the Chinese.
Rudy and McCain (boy he looked tired this afternoon) were off their game as well, I thought. Keyes just likes to make others endure his speech making.
As a piece of disclosure, I’m a Mitt supporter. He didn’t win a landslide, but he held his own just fine.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
Jeremiah-
Please connect the dots for me. How does “saying bad things” about Huckabee = turning our backs on God?
December 12th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
Jeremiah,
Don’t heed the slings and arrows that get thrown at you. Rejoice in it, for those who mock the truth will receive their reward.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
#57
Yep, Mary must know something they don’t know.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
#86 – I wondered that myself. When Huck mentioned the success of the Arkansas state education system, I actually said aloud, “Wait, Arkansas?!?” He may be able to point to progress – meaning it went from worst to not “as worst,” but he can hardly claim to have had the best education system in the US!
December 12th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
I just love the Cristofascist from ‘Hucks Army’ of Pastors comming in and tellimg me I am sending this country down to Hell, I mean, are you guys for real???? You have to be joking, right????
The Ron Paul internet supporters actually seem like intelligent, caring people compared to you guys.
By the way, I know plenty of Anglicans, Catholics, and Evangelicals who are for Romney.
Go Romney Go!!!
December 12th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
Actually yesterday Bill Bennett was talking with somebody on his radio show about Huckabee and education in Ark. They actually said that Ark. is a model that other states need to follow. So Huckabee is most justified in his claim.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:29 pm
You know, Jeremiah, I was wondering if Satan may have caused Huckabee to have a little bit of irrational thinking when it comes to the Dumond case.
Not the case at all, he was using God’s wisdom which tells us to show mercy, in order that we may receive mercy.
And….How did he know that Dumond would commit a criminal offense of Murder????
It is really a lame argument to dispute someone on the grounds of something in which they did not know would happen.
However, I do agree that the Death Penalty needs to be permanently established in all fifty sates, and Mike Huckabee
Supports the Death Penalty for those who have commited Murder.
It’s not until people wake their lousy selves up, and realize the crisis in this Nation.
God help this Nation if a Democrat should win.
~ Jeremiah
December 12th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
Mark – which education expert (referred to as “somebody” in your post) says that Arkansas has a model education system? I wonder how many parents of schoolage children agree with that statement?
December 12th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
I am disappointed that Huckabee chose not to defend his bold idea of setting up a terrorist camp in Kansas. This is a brilliant idea that unfortunately the biased MSM is sweeping under the rug. Huckabee’s plan calls for the transfer of all of the terrorists that are now living off of taxpayer funding in the picturesque coast of Cuba to Ft Leavenworth in Kansas. It seems that the fine residents of Iowa would be in favor of the terrorists moving in next door. Anyway, maybe Huckabee will listen to the polls and push this agenda out more forcibly, or better yet, Huckabee’s rent-a-campaign-manager are holding this ace in their pocket for a more opportune time.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
Alaska Jake!!!! HoW DarE YOu CrIticiZe MY HolY ChRIstiaN StaTE. You mUst bE a bIgot! All whO daRe CrITicizE thE hOlY staTe of aR wiLl be stoNeD whEn –d Sees Fit TO RaptUre Us HuckaBites TO saLVaTion!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 12th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
#96 – That explains why Brownback didn’t support Huck!
December 12th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
#97 – Joseph. . .I’m Jewish. I got my ticket to burn in Hell the day I was born.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
#97 – that was pretty unnecessary
December 12th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Interesting, I have a friend in Med School who is Jewish, but just joined the Mormon Church.
Interesting.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:37 pm
Wow. Well I like Romney but not enough to jump ship to a new religion.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:37 pm
Well Bill Bennett is the former Sec. of Education himself so he has a clue. I cannot remember the name of the guest unfortunately, but it was yesterday between 8 and 9. Keep in mind that there were major education changes under Huckabee.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
Did anybody know that Bill Bennett’s Wife and Ann Romney were very good friends? The Bennetts and the Romney’s are ‘thick as thieves’ as they would say down in Arkansas.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
I read this, this morning:
O Lord, how many are my foes! How many rise up against me! Many are saying of me, “God will not deliver him.â€
But you are a shield around me, O Lord; you bestow glory on me and lift up my head.
To the Lord I cry aloud, and he answers me from his holy hill.
I lie down and sleep; I wake again, because the Lord sustains me. I will not fear the tens of thousands drawn up against me on every side.
Arise, O Lord! Deliver me, O my God! Strike all my enemies on the jaw; break the teeth of the wicked.
From the Lord comes deliverance. May your blessing be on your people.
Psalm 3 (NIV)
I will be fasting and praying for Mike and our nation every Thursday from now until his swearing in, and am inviting anyone who reads this or passes this on to join me as the Lord enables them.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
#60 Tough talk Michael considering they haven’t got to your guy yet.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
murphy Says:
December 12th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
Jeremiah,
Don’t heed the slings and arrows that get thrown at you. Rejoice in it, for those who mock the truth will receive their reward.
Murphy, I clicked on your name and it came up with http://www.mymanmitt.com. Are you really one of the posters on that site?
December 12th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
#105
What about the other candidates and supporters who pray. Does God not listen to them?
December 12th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
alaska jake said: I got my ticket to burn in Hell the day I was born.
You don’t even know what you’re talking about!!
~ Jeremiah
December 12th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
Alaska Jane, you cracked me up with your comment about Keyes– that he makes Paul look Reaganesque.
My husband and I kept looking at each other during Keyes’ comments, and both commented that we felt like we were getting lectured from the school principle or something. YIKES.
RE: Ron Paul– I think tonight, he had his chance to say how he would ever bring people over to his side, and even HE can’t come up with any ways that he would actually accomplish anything besides spouting more of his principled language. He wastes his one shot to sound sensible and practical about how he would enact the things he postulates about.
~Jess
December 12th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
I mean, what if Romney and his supporters fast and pray on Monday, and Thompson and his supporters fast and pray on Tuesday, and Obama and his supporters fast and pray on Wednesday. Then what? Oh, that’s right – Mikey is the CHOSEN one. Almost forgot.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
Jeremiah (94) you said: Not the case at all, he (Huckabee) was using God’s wisdom which tells us to show mercy, in order that we may receive mercy.
And….How did he know that Dumond would commit a criminal offense of Murder????
It is really a lame argument to dispute someone on the grounds of something in which they did not know would happen.
*************************************
According to the Arkansas Leader, Huckabee was in the habit of in the habit of “showing mercy” to criminals who had already committed murder. How do you explain that?
http://www.arkansasleader.com/frontstories/st_06_23_04/huckabee.html
From the Arkansas Leader:
“Until now, Huckabee has refused to comment on his controversial policy of making violent prisoners eligible for parole– they include murderers, armed robbers and rapists, who often return to a life of crime after they’re freed – but in a statement to The Leader this week, he lashed out at prosecutors for not doing more to keep prisoners behind bars – to which Pulaski County Prosecuting Attor-ney Larry Jegley had this response: “That’s a load of baloney.”
December 12th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
Fun debate. Romney won.
December 12th, 2007 at 6:01 pm
111 – No doubt ALL of the candidates have strong faith-based support – that is a given – and as well they should as it will take the faith and prayers of this nation to support the president.
December 12th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
Oh geez… I feel very guilty for reveling in some of the sarcasm in this thread.
December 12th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
Something that everyone needs to realize comes from the Winter 2004 Georgia State University Law Review which notes in a reference that Governor Huckabee “conscientiously reads the entire record before ultimately deciding whether to grant clemency.”
December 12th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
#111 – Shawnie – These are the folks that are supporting Huckabee. I worked with them back in Florida when the Boy Scouts were getting persecuted by the local liberal democrats. They are still upset that the top four candidates, Mitt, Rudy, McCain, and Fred, snubbed them at the value voters enent in Ft Lauderdale and they are bent on creating a theocratic state http://www.f2a.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.home&Heading=Call2Action&Heading_ID=29 Another site to check out is http://www.visionamerica.us/site/PageServer – gives you a pretty good idea of what the country is heading for under a Huckabee administration.
December 12th, 2007 at 6:19 pm
#116 – “conscientiously reads the entire record before ultimately deciding whether to grant clemency.â€
I assumed he prayed about them all as well?
December 12th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
I couldn’t imagine him not.
December 12th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
bethtropaz,
I read the article, and if you notice, he states this–Have Robert Herzfeld, Larry Jegley and the other prosecuting attorneys prosecuted every crime to the full extent the law allows? In other words, have they in every case pursued the maximum penalties? Did they ever plea bargain? How often? What’s the percentage of cases in which they’ve accepted less than the maximum penalties allowed by law?
___ “My point is this: They used their discretion to decide they would ask for less punishment than the maximum sentences. They exercised their personal judgment. In about 10 percent of the cases before me, I might use my discretion based on recommendations of the Post Prison Transfer Board, the testimony of officials, prison records, etc.,”
He’s mainly going on circumstancial evidence after all the facts are in, which is what should be done.
Trial by jury is the fair way,
We’ve all made mistakes, but to try and pin him down on three, four, five cases isn’t sufficient to say that he
would implement this into policy for all of America as President!
And…..I believe if given the chance he would do far more to cut down on crime than any of the other candidates would,
because would institute the Death Penalty for all states–the fullest extent of the law and we send the message,
WE DON’T ALLOW MURDER! We need to do away with this prison stuff, it’s costing American taxpayers millions
upon millions to keep these thugs behind bars, when we could be eliminating two birds with on stone, by instituting the
Death Penalty.
~ Jeremiah
December 12th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
#109 Jeremiah. . .You’re right. Fortunately you and Huck have been annointed by the Almighty to show me the light.
#110 Jess. . .Alan Keyes is a brilliant guy, but a total nut job. I sometimes wonder if he’s really a robot infiltrator created by MoveOn.org to make the GOP look like a bunch of radical religious wackos. I will give him some credit – he does provide some amount of entertainment that is sorely missing in these debates. As for Ron Paul – I agree that he wastes some of his opportunities. I couldn’t disagree with his positions any more than I do, but he’s got a significant segment of the population (from both parties, I believe) that he could really build on. However, he spouts the same lines in every debate and never expands on his ideas. He most definitely is wasting a golden opportunity to increase the strength of his small but growing “revolution”.
December 12th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
#119 – Neither the president nor the federal govt has the power to impose the death penalty on state that choose not to use it. However, the death penalty is already in use for Federal crimes. So what more could Huck do as president regarding the crime of murder? The answer is. . .Nothing.
December 12th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
119 – I like your reasoning. Same reasoning that Huckabee used to waffle on Cuba. “Hey, I said that as a Governor of a state, now here’s what I’d do a the President.”
Ok, sure – can I have some more please..
December 12th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
I welcome the fact that the political talking heads think Fred won (a fact that ONLY hurts Huck due to the fact that I feel the majority of his rise is the support that was HOPING Fred was their saviour.) I can see that Huck support move back to Fred, and then with the voters in the focus group choosing Romney, will push Mitt up as well. I think Huckabee had better wake up and smell the coffee, his new found support could very easily move back to where it came from . . . Fred. For those that say because Huck didn’t get hit in this debate, I think you are dead wrong. This is not the time to have lackluster performances in the debate, and from the reactions of the focus group, they clearly felt that was the case from Huck. I am glad Romney came out as the winner in the minds of the people that matter .. the Iowa voters.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:04 pm
Neither the president nor the federal govt has the power to impose the death penalty on state that
choose not to use it.
That’s what I’m saying, Jake, we need to get it changed so that it is a Federally mandated principle by amending
the Constitution to support it. This is a must, and as I told Mr. Greg Artolten – without Laws of Morality, this country is a
Goner!!
~ Jeremiah
December 12th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
#125 Jeremiah. . .While I agree with your intentions I can’t disagree more with your desire to make the death penalty a federal requirement. Murder, for the most part, is a state crime, left to the states to decide on its legislation and punishment. Signing over states’ rights to the Federal Government, aside from requiring Constitutional amendments, would be a very dangerous move, and would signify the end of our federal system of government. We may disagree on a lot of things on this site, but most all of us agree the Federal govt has more than enough power as it is.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
[...] an important piece of information on the 2008 Election: Mitt Romney won the last pre-voting debate. Race42008Â has the story, as well as a tell-all video from the Luntz focus groups. It looks like Thompson [...]
December 13th, 2007 at 12:00 am
Jake,
Then how much more can we expect to stop Murderers in your scenario??
It should not only be a capital offense, it should be a Federal offense. Period.
~ Jeremiah
December 13th, 2007 at 12:32 am
Jeremiah. . .Murder needs to be addressed at the state level. If voters feel they aren’t being protected, they need to address that, by voting in new legislators who feel the way they do and will work to reduce the number of murders. Federalizing a state responsibility is not only unconstitutional, it’s ineffective. People break the law every day, in offenses ranging from traffic violations to, as you point out, murder. The federal govt has no authority under our system of laws to deal with any of that. It’s not my scenario, it’s our national Constitution.