Here are the reports in from the field (minus Jason who will probably file his own report).“M” (my friend, the incredible Romney volunteer) says the rural corn field evangelical vote went overwhelmingly for Huckabee. Apparently, that’s the theme of the night. As “X” says below… the Romney camp did what it needed to do… Huckabee just brought out the evangelical vote in a larger percentage.
Spoke with “X” (senior Romney official). His thoughts: “Here’s the deal. We turned out our people… we expected to get what we got. Huckabee and his brand and style and just pulled out the evangelical vote which made up the difference.”
“Bottom line. There is no where else on Gods’s green earth where more than 50% of the voters are Evangelical Christians… even in SC its 40% but not 50%.”
“We got 2 of the 3 things we wanted tonight. Obviously, a win would have been great. But having Fred match or beat McCain was one of our goals.”
“Lastly, we really REALLY wanted Obama to win. With Obama finishing strong and taking momentum to New Hampshire the independent vote will not cross over to John McCain.”
In my mind there’s a real chance to grab a victory in New Hampshire and come out on top. I can’t see how Huckabee can go on from here with no money, no organization and no built-in base to count on.
Romney is still the guy to beat as I see it.
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:52 pm
LOL
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Justin: “Romney is still the guy to beat as I see it.”
The smart money:
Intrade Update:
JMac 32.5
Rudy 26.8
HUck 16.8
Mitt 13.5
New Hampshire:
JMac 66.0
Mitt 20.0
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Huck will now probably win South Carolina and Florida.
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:54 pm
“In my mind there’s a real chance to grab a victory in New Hampshire and come out on top. I can’t see how Huckabee can go on from here with no money, no organization and no built-in base to count on.”
Are you kidding!?!
Huckabee is ahead in Michigan in some polls, ahead in SC in all polls, and ahead in Florida in most of the polls…..and he got 5,0000,0000 last quarter (plus the amount their going to get after this win)!!
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:56 pm
Wiseguy,
Not necessarily. After McCain wins NH and MI, he’ll give Huck a run for his money in SC.
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:56 pm
McCain is going to beat Romney in NH like a rented mule.
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:56 pm
Romney tonight:
““I expect that by the time this is finished, I’ll be the one with the nomination. See you in New Hampshire.â€
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Patrick,
Don’t be so sure McCain is going to beat Huckabee in Michigan.
In any event, clearly MICHIGAN is shaping up to be a CRITICAL state.
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:57 pm
get over it Justin. Romney got crushed and it wasn’t just evangelical’s that voted for him.
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Ben,
Huck raised $5 million ONLINE. That does not include his offline total. A recent article I read talked about him raising $750,000 in two fundraisers over one or two days alone.
So his grand total should be much higher.
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Ben that is a lot of money…why is he running for pres he ought to take the money and run.
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Right On, Mitt. See you next Tuesday
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:58 pm
That analysis seems…. optimistic.
yep.
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Huck will win SC and probably FL.
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Unfortunately, Mitt is no longer the frontrunner. Huckabee will get a very sizable bounce from Iowa. He won’t win New Hampshire, but he will get a surge in other places. He has to be considered the frontrunner. Momentum is the most important single aspect of presidential campaigns and there is no way to overestimate it. Mitt can win New Hampshire, but if he doesn’t, Huckabee might well get the nomination.
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:59 pm
thompson back into 3rd place.
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:59 pm
After getting completely crushed tonight, I expect Romney to drop 5 to 10 points in the next New Hampshire poll. Even with Obama’s win, McCain will beat Romney among Republicans in NH.
It’s a good day.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:00 pm
If Huck can surge to 20-25% in NH, he could be the story out of there as well.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:00 pm
X also told me that Romney wasted over 10 million dollars in Iowa this year!
Y also told me that Romney is screwed going into NH.
Z thinks that Romney is done for!
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:01 pm
This is probably the most ludicrous analysis I have ever heard of. Justin you sound like the second coming of Comical Ali. Romney got horse whipped tonight. Romney is trailing Huck by more points than McCain is trailing Romney in Iowa. And Romney spent $50 million on iowa! Romney is about to get PWNed in NH and put this silly spin to be once and for all.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Welll, the first shot has been fired and it is time for the war to begin. See yall on the battlefield, this party is just getting started.
BTW: Dodd is out (a surprise to the 5 people who knew he was running)
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:01 pm
we will see…
I don’t see Romney dropping that much.
But it is a real question who Huck drains from.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Well, if it had to be Huckabee, I agree with Mr. X.
It’s great that the Democrat field is contested with Obama on top.
It’s great that J-Mac got knocked down to 4th.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:03 pm
In my mind there’s a real chance to grab a victory in New Hampshire and come out on top. I can’t see how Huckabee can go on from here with no money, no organization and no built-in base to count on.
THIS IS RUDY’S BIG IDEA, FOOLS.
WE WILL BE LAUGHING AT YOU SO HARD COME SUPER TUESDAY.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:03 pm
LJ: After getting completely crushed tonight, I expect Romney to drop 5 to 10 points…
Heh. Romney got 2nd place with more than double what McCain got in 4th.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:03 pm
Ron Paul ALMOST beat Mitt Romney… I would be very worried if I were you Justin.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:03 pm
i would like to agree with justin, and i would think he is right if there was a little more time. however, there is only five days and this will probably hurt romney just enough to givce him another number two place. however with more time, he may too havfe his ‘comeback’ if he managed to pull of a win somewhere before florida.
he has the money and what it takes to keep going. he is not going to throw in the towel anytime soon. he will not go down without a fight.
like justin said. any other state and huck would not have been able to beat him. can’t compete when 60 percent of the vote think you belong a cult and that God has picked huckabee to be the nominee.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:04 pm
MetroRepublican, Romney is still the guy to be concerned about.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:04 pm
The Rombots now sound like the Rudyites.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Here’s something positive from a commenter on a mymanmitt.com:
There’s a very good chance Romney will lose NH, but will come out of it having the most total actual votes out of Iowa and NH total than anybody else. This is the popular vote card Gore played in 2000, but I think it does show that Romney is the only guy who can compete everywhere. Look how McCain is doing in Iowa, and watch how Huckabee does in NH.
A few one-sided specialists can take down the strongest and most comprehensive candidate by playing to niches that won’t play in the future.
Romney still has a pretty good chance, sure he’s the certified underdog and lost big tonight, but Huckabee and McCain will have their records scrutinized moreso than before and I’m confident in Romney’s chances at picking up Michigan and Nevada, and I don’t see a Giuliani-takes-a-fractured-field threat on the horizon like I used to.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Turn out the lights, the party’s over.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:05 pm
#26 what? Ron Paul came in 5th tonight, no where near Mitt Romney
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:06 pm
Tom, Huckabee got twice as many evangelical votes as Bush did. Yes, evangelicals are one who crushed Mitt.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:06 pm
A little Democrat talk for a second -
How, if at all possible, does Obama not just run away with this thing? He is already the favorite in NH and after an 8% win in Iowa this lead will only grow. Maybe he gets stopped in SC but that seems about it.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:06 pm
jack your an idiot. romney did not spend 50 million in iowa and he still took second place well above any of the others. giuliani lost to ron paul for heavens sake.
huck won’t gert much momentum from iowa. look at intrades numbers, they hardly moved on his overall chances.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:06 pm
We’ll have a lot fewer candidates in the next debates.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:06 pm
Anyone betting on a Fred dropout before NH?
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:06 pm
romney could do himseld well with a killer performance in the next debate. he will for once not be a frontrunner.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
#31, wow, said by the guy who kept insisting Romney would run the table, that his lead was insurmountable, and said the rest of us were stupid for not seeing it.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Final turnout will be about 120,000. That’s incredible. 60% evangelical, that’s morre than 72,000 evangelicals. There were only 32,000 evangelical caucusers in 2004. Huckabee took almost half, Romney only 20%. Obviously, those were 40,000 first time evangelical caucusers. It was an evangelical tsunami. Only 25% of his cuucusers were other than evangelical.
Romney turned out almost 60% of their identified supporters, a very solid performance. The apostle Paul himself couldn’t have beaten this evangelical turnout.
Now the stuff that goes against the current talking points. I don’t think Huckabee rolled up the big numbers in the rural evangelical hamlets. Check your sources and look for Huck’s splits in Des Moines, Quad City, etc. I think this flush can only be explained by moving massive congregations, and that means mega churches.
No political model can make this replicable.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Now we will see if evangelicals will coalesce around Huckabee even after NH and WY and MI, if they do, then it’s a split convention.
I do not believe that it will be a landslide or a victory for Huckabee straight up. Very few people really know who Huckabee is. Right now, I’m wishing that I didn’t do my homework and continued to think what I thought back in August, and that was, “If the world was fair, Huckabee would be the frontrunner”
Anyways, this mess still favors Romney, who is running a multi-state campaign. Michigan could very well be the most important voting state at this point.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
#34, Huck went from 11 to 17 in a couple of hours.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:08 pm
Interesting Stuff:
WaPo has an interactive map showing county by county results. From my first glance the countys that Huckabee won were by a large margin over mitt and vice versa for the states that Mitt won.
McCain only won one county.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:09 pm
I meant counties. my bad
here’s the link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/interactives/campaign08/iowa-caucus/
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Interesting side note, Mayor Giuliani has just announced his Maine caucus leadership team. Maybe Hizzoner is going to try and catapult from a Florida win to beat Romney in his own region. I still believe that we will not have a nominee after Feb 5th. Mark my words
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:11 pm
If Mitt’s done for…..Go Rudy!!!
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Wow..check out the flash ad on Huck’s site.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:13 pm
23 murphy
A little premature. McCain and Thompson are tied at 13. I don’t know who’ll take third.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:13 pm
“If Mitt’s done for…..Go Rudy!!!”
If mitt is done, so is the hope for getting a president who is conservative on all major issues.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:13 pm
and also check out Huckabee money-counter…its growing!!!
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:15 pm
It is amusing to go to townhall.com to see our friend Hugh Hewitt damn near have an aneurism (sic) over his man’s loss. Although I agree with his analysis that it will be a very very long race
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Michael- is it 15 to 1 or 20 to 1? I can’t trust anything coming out of Huck-a-team if they can’t even get the outspending number right
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:18 pm
15 to 1 is a “conservative” estimate
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:19 pm
FCOH, we can’t be 100% certain how much Huckabee was outspent because Romney’s been secretive about the personal funds he’s used in Iowa in the last two weeks.
It’s 7 to 1 at a minimum and 20 to 1 at a maximum.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Michael – Ok – that works. Nice to see Huckabee rounding the corner toward fiscal conservativism
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:20 pm
What this tells you is what those who live outside the Romney bubble have been saying all along. Romney is an inauthentic, robotic character who does not connect with real people. All the time and money spent in Iowa and he loses by a margin worse than anyone predicted. He cannot sell himself, so he has now resorted to a scorched earth policy of trying to destroy the other candidates. It did not work in Iowa and it will not work elsewhere.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Even if Rudy isn’t conservative on ALL the major issues, he’s far more reliable to tackle the biggest for me – national security and overhauling a bloated government – than the alternative candidates.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:24 pm
Metro,
Rudy is going nowhere, and the only significance of the intrade numbers is a transfer of wealth from Wall Street to the rubes on Main Street. Having said that, I admit to having totally underestimated the political skills of Huckabee. Huckabee is now the probable nominee and the national polls will start reflecting that. It’s not too late to stop Huck….at least not yet. Mitt might be able to, depending on what happens in New Hampshire, Michigan, and Nevada. Otherwise, Huck will be the nominee.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:25 pm
Metro, I must say I’ve been reading your posts for over a year now and I’m impressed with your predictions.
Rudy wasn’t going to win in IA and that’s why he didn’t seriously compete there. He knew he was going to lose. It matters little if someone gets third place or fifth place in a caucus – losing is losing. Why invest a lot of resources when they can be better invested elsewhere?
Frankly in some ways I think the result shows that Rudy is vindicated in blowing off the voters of Iowa – a crew that goes about 60% for Huck and Mitt isn’t going to give him the time of day.
This is the strategy Rudy’s people had in place for a while. They figured that he wasn’t going to get big slices of the evangelical vote in the primaries. Hopefully he will win in FL and win big on mega Tuesday. Lots of delegates out there for the taking, including the NY-NJ-CT ‘winner take all’ primaries.
And by the way, Rudy is going to be on Larry King at 12pm EST.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:26 pm
58,
Mitt had his chance to stop Huckabee. He failed, as most of us knew he would.
McCain, however, WILL stop Huckabee.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:29 pm
‘Justin: “Romney is still the guy to beat as I see it.—
Then I got high, then I got high, then I got high…
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Hah ha I still see Huckabee as a nonfactor! Am I the only one wondering why a poorly disguised liberal just won the Iowa Republican Caucus? Stranger things have happened.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Michael, I do acknowledge that Mitt lost to Huckabee tonight. However, he did beat the rest. This is a valid point to consider, that Mitt did much better than the rest of the candidates. Rudy finishes MUCH worse than expected; he walked away with just 3% of votes, and was beat by Ron Paul! McCain too did worse. Ron did the same as what polls had for him. Thompson, better. If there is anyone who walk away from this winner, it would be Huckabee and Thompson. So, Mitt did not finish top, but he did better than everyone but Thompson and Huckabee. There are three tickets coming out of Iowa, and Mitt has one.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Metro, I must say I’ve been reading your posts for over a year now and I’m impressed with your predictions.
Rudy wasn’t going to win in IA and that’s why he didn’t seriously compete there. He knew he was going to lose. It matters little if someone gets third place or fifth place in a caucus – losing is losing. Why invest a lot of resources when they can be better invested elsewhere?
Frankly in some ways I think the result shows that Rudy is vindicated in blowing off the voters of Iowa – a crew that goes about 60% for Huck and Mitt isn’t going to give him the time of day.
This is the strategy Rudy’s people had in place for a while. They figured that he wasn’t going to get big slices of the evangelical vote in the primaries. Hopefully he will win in FL and win big on mega Tuesday. Lots of delegates out there for the taking, including the NY-NJ-CT ‘winner take all’ primaries.
And by the way, Rudy is going to be on Larry King at 12pm EST.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:33 pm
Good News…I just installed Leopard! Woo-Hoo!
But I’m bummed about this. It was without question the evangelical bigots who turned out in droves under their pastor’s orders to vote for the one running for National Pastor.
Seriously, what else is he running on? Nothing. Iowans might think that being a preacher by trade who hates gays and Mormons are all the conservative credentials a presidential candidate needs but it won’t play in more than maybe a few other places.
Obama hurts McCain in NH. Mitt needs a great debate.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:34 pm
SGS, I would agree with your statements in #62. The problem though is expectations. It proved that the “superior” ground game could not beat Huck. Mitt will have a similiar spanking in most southern states. As far as Rudy, even though it wasn’t in the strategy, his showing was horrendous.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:34 pm
“Romney is still the guy to beat as I see it.â€â€
Justin – gotta love your loyalty.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:35 pm
“We Won the Silver”- Mitt Romney.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Hey Mitt you spent $50 million in Iowa and all you got was a silver? You are toast. TOAST! McCain is going to finish off this fraud once and for all in New Hampshire. Mitt Romney is going to be nothing but a political footnote, recalled in the same manner as Ed Muskie and Bruce Babbitt.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Fredo, True, they both are 13%, but if you look at the vote count, Thompson is ahead with 13,834, vs McCain’s 13,556. That’s almost 300 votes ahead. I think you are right in that Fred is still in the race, which is a great thing!
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Victoria, thanks
I’ve predicted just about every turn in this race correctly. Fundraising numbers. The Huck surge before it happened. Tonight’s results, almost to the digit. Etc.
Also, note that the media is not talking about Rudy’s death. He’s was on Fox. He’s about to be on Larry King.
Why? Because primaries are measured based on EXPECTATIONS/STORYLINE. Some people STILL don’t get it.
So… when is Mitt going to speak? Did they not have a speech ready for a 9-point loss?
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:38 pm
I think McCain pretty much met expectations. The media may have been building him up to be number three, but he wasn’t it all in a lock to get number three, and the fact is he got really close to number three so I would say he was pretty much even with expectations. Romney underacheived expectations. Huck was only up like three points and he won by nine points to a candidate who had a heavilly touted organization. The expectation was that Iowa would be close and 9%, while not a landslide isn’t extremely close. So I would say Huck won the expectations game, Romney lost it, McCain and Thompson met it ( with Thompson perhaps slightly beating it), Rudy wasn’t playing in the game, but losing by 7 points to Ron Paul and only getting 3% can’t help.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:38 pm
Wow, those evangelicals are sure hard to dissuade, what with all the huckablunders this last week alone (pakistan:location, martial law, pakistani illegals; going negative, but then not, but then still going negative)…seriously, no one is as surprised as i am about Huckabee winning this one by 9%, truly terrifying…
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:38 pm
“It was without question the evangelical bigots who turned out in droves under their pastor’s orders to vote for the one running for National Pastor.”
Why do Romney supporters spend so much time trashing other candidates supporters? Be a man and accept the fact that voters preferred someone else, without coming up with some Jesse Jackson/ Al Sharpton excuse.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:38 pm
Michael, we are forgetting one thing — most of the people do not follow the race as closely as we are. They won’t understand the effort they have put into it. They are not seeing the same expectation games we have seen. Average voters won’t know. They will only know that Huckabee, Mitt and Fred are ones who finish in the top three.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Metro,
Orielly is on board with the Rudy theory as well. The problem is that they have been wrong to this point. Bill claimed that Huck would never be above 10% in a national poll. These guys have lost touch with reality.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Question. How much money does it take to overcome the ignorant anti-Mormon bias prevalent in most evangelical churches? 15 to 1 didn’t even come close, so I’m guessing that no amount of money is going to convince people who think their candidate is anointed by God himself. Let’s hope the rest of the early states are smarter than Evangelicla Iowans.
Now that Huck is the official front-runner, let’s all pray that the scrutiny of his record increases 15 to 1 over what it has been.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:40 pm
#73, Thats ludicrous. The media and the candidates will make it known, I can assure you.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Metro,
“I’ve predicted just about every turn in this race correctly.”
Some stuff. Not all. You predicted Rudy would surge at the holidays on the strength of a NH ad blitz. Turns out he dropped, pulled a lot of ads, and dropped some more. I doubt you predicted he would be running 4th in Rasmussen’s national poll.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:41 pm
Thing I hate about the Iowa vote is that you must be present for it. Those of us that are overseas should and must be allowed to participate in this process. I know Iowans like the way it is but it is very unfair to those of us that are in harms way!
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:41 pm
Michael, *I* didn’t claim Huck would never be above 10% nationally.
In October, I predicted he would hit 19% in Iowa by today — and was ridiculed for it.
He hit it a couple weeks later, got 34%, and has exceeded 19% in national polling.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:41 pm
” How much money does it take to overcome the ignorant anti-Mormon bias prevalent in most evangelical churches?”
Here we go again with the Al Sharpton theories. You know, grown adults can accept differences of opinion without dismissing it as a character flaw….
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:41 pm
“evangelical bigots????”
Thats what I call bigotry…..
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:41 pm
MWS, I retracted that prediction a few weeks ago.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Vet, thank you for your service!!!!
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:42 pm
I’m not a Huckabee supporter, but those who tag all Huck supporters as bigots are totally offensive.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:42 pm
MWS, since I am a Romney supporter, which you have just accused, I must tell you that I will be very, very, very happy to vote for any of our candidates, except for McCain or Huckabee. I won’t vote for these two under any circumstance. The sad tale that is ours is that you have been slanging the same things against Mitt over and over. We already talked about those points. For example, you said that Mitt is a slicky used car sales person. We asked, how? You still have yet to answer that question. This is one of many. Yes, we have come out for Mitt more than we have for others, because he was in the center of every single attack from all fronts.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Patrick,
Are you out of your mind? McCain got half as many votes as Romney and finished 4th. Ever hear the expression 3 tickets out of Iowa? McCain could win New Hampshire, where he has been camped out while Mitt was preoccupied in Iowa, but he isn’t prepared to be competitive anywhere else. Romney won 23 counties, McCain won 1. Romney has money and a national organization. McCain has zero, zip, and nada in both categories. Huckabee has personal charm and charisma. McCain has zero, zip, and nada in both categories. He’s a non-factor. Thank the Lord.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:43 pm
how ironic that all the establishment conservatives who used the evangelicals to win in 2004(NR, WS, Limbaugh, Levin, Ingraham, etc…)are now turning on them for vaulting Huck past their man Mitt.
Mitt is finished.
I expect him and Castellanos to go negative big on McCain in NH. It will not work. Mitt will lose NH and MI.
SC will come down to Huck v McCain and Rudy will be going hard in FL.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Metro,
I didn’t say you did. I said people who subscribe to your theory did.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Dave, wow, even after tonight you are still living in unreality.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Metro, You were right on each point indeed.
“So… when is Mitt going to speak? Did they not have a speech ready for a 9-point loss?â€
He has already given a speech but the media decided to show Huck instead. I just saw a few seconds of Mitt (replay) on CNN.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:44 pm
LOL… that was the most ridiculous spin job I’ve ever read. The contributor who wrote that should be axed immediately.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Dave,
I’ll put that in the same category as “Mitt will crush everyone in Iowa”.
Thanks for your predictions. The fact that you disavow McCain so much gives me even greater confidence.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Michael, actually, no… most Rudy people I know expected Huck to rise and do his job in Iowa.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Once again, why do Rombots have so much hate for other voters? As Huck said in his victory speech- in elections as in battle- it’s not about hating those in front of you, but loving those behind you.
The Rombots need to work for those they love, and stop hating the rest.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Wow, Mitt spoke?
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Mitt spoke at the same time Huck did?
Boy is that weasely! But totally fitting.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:46 pm
Wow, Vet, I’ve always disliked the IA process in general for its bizarre complexity. It really is weird for such a contest to determine who our ultimate candidates are. (Here in WV we’re also holding a sham poll on Feb. 5, the GOP caucus.)
What ever happened to simple, secret ballots?
Many thanks to you and your fellow troops for the important work you’re doing in Afghanistan.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:47 pm
mws, would you happily be cheering and begging to get onboard with a Romney win tonight? What if the first caucus was in utah? Could Mitt really claim that as a huge win?
Anyway, im just glad we got this far without Huckenstein promising to wipe Utah off the map!
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:47 pm
McCain just called Huck to congradulate him.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:47 pm
where’s abe?
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:48 pm
SGS,
I attack the candidate. I do not attack the intelligence or the integrity of a candidate’s supporters, as so many of Romney’s supporters do here.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:48 pm
It’s going to be McCain-Huckabee or Huckabee-McCain. That’s a ticket that will America the guy they love and the guy they think can protect them. It will produce a landslide for the GOP.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:48 pm
Now Abe will be saying: The HUCKABUST is coming JAN 3rd…. err wait no JAN 8th yes that’s the one this time
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:48 pm
98, So Iowa is Majority Southern Baptist?
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:49 pm
MWS, Once again, since I am one of RomBots, speaking for myself. No, I did not hate other voters. I will be very happy to vote for any candidate except for McCain and Huckabee. It’s just that you have been attacking Mitt without using evidences to get behind your attacks. We’re tired of telling you the same thing over and over. Yes, our patience had wear thin.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:49 pm
Huck4Pres,
Abe has very graciously conceded on another thread.
He was a good sport about it.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:49 pm
MWS, Oh, I see you replied to my comment. Disgard my #102 please
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:49 pm
Yes, MWS, voters preferred someone else. I just don’t think highly of those people.
Someone who tells folksy jokes and quotes scripture to hide how uninformed he is on the issues is now considered by some to be an “authentic conservative”? This won’t last and Iowa will look irrelevant when this is all said and done.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:50 pm
I didn’t see that MWS. I’m glad he came around.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:50 pm
MetroRepublican, yes, Mitt did speak, but as I understand it, he did not concede. Again, I do not have cable, nor can I listen to radio. I may be mistaken, but that was what was said out there on internet.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Not voting for McCain when the choice is betweeen him or Hillary, Obama, or Edwards really puts a person’s conservative credentials into question?
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:51 pm
“I can’t see how Huckabee can go on from here with no money, no organization and no built-in base to count on.â€
Yeah, because Huck couldn’t run right through Romney in Iowa with no money, no organization, and no built-in base to count on. Oh, wait, he kind of did, even against a blisteringly negative campaign of lies and abuse mounted by an angry Romney, and even with the entire GOP establishment turning on him.
The entire South East is Gov. Huckabee’s built-in base. I wonder if Romney will even try to carry any of it.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:51 pm
shiggz,
” would you happily be cheering and begging to get onboard with a Romney win tonight? ”
No. But I would not be insulting his supporters, calling them names, or impugning their integrity. The rest of your post is just sour grapes. Mitt obviously thought he could when Iowa, or he would not have spent tens of millions of dollars. He didn’t. Now tell your compatriots to get over it without the juvenile insults.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Huck is up big in all the southern states. I just don’t see a path to victory for anyone but Huckabee or McCain. And Huckabee has more cash on hand than anyone but Paul and Romney (his own cash) right now.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Having seen Abe’s comment on the other thread, I retract my sarcasm and apologize
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:53 pm
So which part of Huckabee’s platform do some of you people have a problem with??
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:54 pm
MWS, I do apprecite your effort not to attack anyone but candidates. I too tried to be careful about others, and focus instead on the candidates. However, the sad fact is that there have been plenty of attacks against each other on this site. It was not just from the RomBots. Plenty of blame goes around, too. Have we forgotten Rett? What of the provokes from Rudyites when Mitt was supposed to imploded last October or thereabout? There has been some harsh words from McCainites when Jason released contracting ADs on this site. Then, there were the comments about Mitt supporters in all of the front-page posts against Mitt the past three days.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Huck, every part of it. Especially economic populism. That’s the exact opposite of Reagan’s message.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Saying you think Iowa made a poor decision is one thing. Being disappointed in the resault is one thing. Saying Iowa voters are bigoted because they didn’t vote how you wanted them to is entirely another thing.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:55 pm
#116 His economic and foreign policy. I don’t see him as a supply-sider or a man with an agressive foreign policy
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:56 pm
So are you guys ready for the cat fight between Romney and McCain at the next debate?
Will Rudy have the Tancredo podium?
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:56 pm
Reagan was a good man and a good President.
Reagan’s dead.
Time to move into the 21st century and stop obsessing about the past.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:57 pm
First off, I’ve been supporting Huckabee since he announced in January ever since I switched from John McCain. What does Obama winning really mean for the republicans. Huckabee actually has a better chance of winning in NH now(though he probably won’t win), because he won’t have to worry about crossover independants. The fact is, this is very good for 3 PEOPLE….Huckabee, McCain, and guess who the other is? RON PAUL! Look for Ron Paul to suprise in New Hampshire. He’s got the money, and for some reason, people don’t know where to go. I think whoever wins Florida will win the nomination. I’m hoping for McCain or Huckabee to win.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Can you point me in the direction of the Huckabust, please?
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:59 pm
SGS,
I think we can agree that the harsh rhetoric should be reserved for those asking for our vote, and not their supporters.
Peace from a Huckster to a Rombot…..
January 4th, 2008 at 12:00 am
Leave it to econ grad stud.
Entrepreneurship and economic opportunity are not ideas of the 1980s. They are the ideas of the last couple centuries and of the future.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:01 am
#119, I concede that some exceptions exist but look around the web. Romney blogs have covered this well but look at some comments left by Hickabee supporters at places ranging from Poltico, to LA Times, and even Hickabee’s own site. Cult this, cult that, Romney is a satan worshipper, blah, blah, blah. Hickabee never disavowed it because he couldn’t win without it.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:01 am
Metro, go over to Huck’s website and find any part of his platform that even smells like economic liberalism. If by “populism”, you mean that Mike cares about how his policies affect the middle class in America, then God-forbid the GOP nominate someone like that. The fact of the matter is while Reagnomics did a lot of good to jump start the economy, it also left a lot of people behind. We can improve upon Reagonomics to correct that while staying in the spirit of it.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:02 am
#125, I’m still promoting my unity pledge, that we rally behind any of the GOP contenders (and as of now it could be any of them except Paul and Hunter). We Republicans have to unite if we are going to win in November
January 4th, 2008 at 12:02 am
Huck4Pres, your candidate OPENLY ATTACKS WALL STREET, THE CLUB FOR GROWTH, THE RICH, MITT ROMNEY FOR BEING RICH.
D’oh!
January 4th, 2008 at 12:03 am
Huck, there was an assassination attempt before the last successful one against Bhutto. With, this first attempt, there came a suidical bomber with a live baby. This live baby was wrapped underbeneth with denoates. The plan was that the baby was to be turned over to Bhutto, then blow both of them up. Fortunately, there was a change in her plans. This terrorist went ahead and blew herself and her baby up, killing over 170 people. And Huckabee claims they were misunderstood. They are evil people, period, and no amount of talk will resolve their brainwashed teachings. The source of this Wahhabism teaching (a specific sect who practice the actual and physical Jihab against us, rather than inner struggling) must be wiped out in no uncertain term. Huckabee does not get it.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:03 am
The best thing for the middle class is a growing economy.
The very best thing is opporunity, so a guy like me, who was broke 5 years ago after a failed business and living in poverty, could start a new business and be living in Bel Air right now.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:03 am
#12
FairTax, most tax cuts in state history….etc.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:04 am
#128
FairTax, most tax cuts in state history….etc.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:04 am
Metro,
How’s this for living in reality? Mitt got his voters out, and in a normal turnout it would have been enough for a comfortable win. Huckabee’s evangelicals turned out in unprecedented numbers to vote for one of their own. This tactic won’t work in New Hampshire, Michigan, or Nevada, where the demographics are totally different. It will very much work in South Carolina and Florida. Huckabee could win Michigan by the sheer force of populism in a state where that has always played well. Huck will be raising more money than he’s ever dreamed of, and could very well become fixed as a champion of the people in the mass mind. Translation: It will be very difficult to stop him.
But the fact is that Mitt is the only guy in the race who has a chance. Did you notice that Rudy got 4%? Fred’s only shot is South Carolina, which will succumb totally to the Huckster. McCain is a joke and will always remain so. Huckabee is the favorite to win this thing, and in a year in which the Democrats are vulnerable, could very well become our next president. And, if he wins the nomination, there won’t be any Republicans in the race.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:04 am
If you look at Huckabee’s platform it’s more conservative on healthcare and taxes than Rudy’s plan.
If you want a real Reagan fiscal conservative you’ve got FDT and Romney.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:05 am
Huck is facing the most difficult part of his campaign this next 2 weeks. Can he appeal to other than Evangelical Christians? His campaign suggets that he already has, and I am not buying it. CNN showed and interesting stat from tonight. Of those that said they were not Evangelical Christians, romney won 33% of their vote, and Huckabee won 14%. That is the demographic that Huckabee faces in NH next week, and I think that the discussion now moves away from the Romney flip-flop on abortion, to a more focused debate on the issues that matter to almost every conservative outside of Iowa apparently. The economy and defense/immigration. 2 areas where Huckabee is abysmal. I agree that this race is more wide open than ever, and you can’t count out the guy who has the most money. Well, you can, but it would be foolish. Rudy’s strategy seems more viable at this point than ever, despite his loss tonight. Like I said a few days ago, the muddier the water, the better it bodes for Rudy. I will say, if Romney loses NH, and then loses MI, I will throw my support to Rudy to prevent Huckabee from winning the nomination. I think I am not alone in that boat either.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:06 am
MWS (#125) And, so I do concur! Thanks!
January 4th, 2008 at 12:06 am
SGS,
Where in the world has Mike Huckabee ever said that a terrorist was “misunderstood”?
January 4th, 2008 at 12:06 am
Huck won Iowa. Congrats. It looks like McCain has the most natural path-to-nomination now. Many things can happen between now and Feb 5th, though. Here are some predictions.
Clinton takes out the meatcleaver and takes Obama apart. Democratic nomination looks very ugly. Obama comes out clean and wins the Dem Nom.
Romney keeps going through Feb 5th. Perhaps he tries to be more natural and likeable. Who knows what happens then.
McCain moves steady until Feb 5th. . . He’s the establishment candidate now. Who knows what happens Feb 5th.
Giuliani fades to black (to use a little TLG atheist lingo).
It will be highly unlikely that Nice Hugabee survives to be nominated. He will come under heavy scrutiny. His campaign will become uncontrolable as a result of poor management. Multiple gaffs, Huckabee:2008 :: Dean:2004, becomes a running joke in the Republican Party and among the media.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:07 am
How is Huck more conservative than Rudy on healthcare and taxes?
Rudy is the only national politician to ever triumph “PRIVATE MEDICINE,” yes, using those words.
Regarding taxes, every organization concerned with taxes gives Rudy an A and Huck an F.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:07 am
#136, those of us who are “national security conservatives” have Rudy and McCain to rally around, fiscal cons have Romney and to a lesser extent Rudy and Fred, and social cons have the Huckster and to a lesser exten Thompson. We will be fractured in a competative primary at least until mid-Feb
January 4th, 2008 at 12:07 am
#132
Hey Metro,
Congrats on that by the way! I saw your picture the other day outside of Bel Air with the Metro sign being held up in front of the camera. Good on you! The American dream! Gotta love it!
January 4th, 2008 at 12:08 am
Metro, Huckabee’s FairTax plan will grow the economy like never before. Again, I invite you to go over to http://www.mikehuckabee.com an look at his platform, don’t just take all the Romney attack ads at their word for what they want to portray Mike to be about.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:08 am
Jared, thanks.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:09 am
Huck does not attack Mitt Romney for being rich.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:09 am
Where’d Abe go?
January 4th, 2008 at 12:10 am
Metro,
Thats because Huckabee raised certain luxury taxes (cigarettes) in Arkansas because the courts MANDATED that he do so to fix roads. He let the people vote on it and the people of Arkansas voted to raise taxes. He never raised the income tax however and decreased other taxes 94 times. He has already signed a pledge not to raise taxes as President even if his FairTax plan doesn’t go through. Please go look at what he would stand for as President, don’t just take the interest groups and the Romney campaign at their word.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:10 am
Michael, yes he does. The first thing he said on Leno was, I remind voters more of their coworker than the guy who laid them off.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:10 am
I happen to have a little money, and Huck is not my enemy.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:10 am
Metro, if you look at the candidate platforms Huckabee is more conservative on taxes and healthcare.
You can argue over records but Huckabee is proposing more conservative solutions.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:11 am
Huck4Pres, why would interest groups concerned about taxes be wrong about taxes?
January 4th, 2008 at 12:11 am
Metro,
That has nothing to do with how much money he has. It is his dimeanor.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:11 am
I am so thankful that Governor Huckabee won Iowa. There was some clown on this site talking about a Huckabust for a month or so, how awful he must feel. I pray for Mitt Romney and feel sorry for him. He must feel really awful and embarrassed. I have dontated for the 3rd time to the Huckabee campaign. I can’t wait until he wins South Carolina and Florida and then the general election. The good lord blessed Mike Huckabee and the people of Iowa tonight, all can sleep well. God Bless.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:12 am
econ, that’s ludicrous. Explain.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:12 am
#144, I don’t believe that I should be taxed up to 23% because I buy things. I’m a college student, I have no income and books to pay for. Why should another 23% of my limited income go to the government of all places? And what about state and local govs? Will they add 23% more in taxes? 69% consumption tax? Hardly a cut by any measurement
January 4th, 2008 at 12:12 am
abe is probably in bed like we should all be! I am getting too old for this LOL
January 4th, 2008 at 12:12 am
Amen econ grad student. I’m a fiscal conservative as well as a social conservative and Huckabee’s fiscal plans make the most sense. Huckabee also balanced the budget in Arkansas, something many people thought was impossible, and that’s also something we as fiscal conservatives should be pushing for. The man knows how to eliminate waste and be productive with what he’s given, which is why he was one of America’s best governors.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:13 am
sure, this post is spin. but theres truth to it. it aint over till its over. and while a lot of people have strength right now, its not like that strength is consolidated in one place.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:13 am
Huck4, didn’t your guy preside from AR growing from a $6B budget to a $16B budget?
January 4th, 2008 at 12:13 am
146 – He does it constantly. Most recent and most public example, Leno. “I remind people of the guy they work with, not the guy who laid them off.”
January 4th, 2008 at 12:13 am
Metro is right on the economic stuff with Huck. In fact I would be careful how the market reacts tomorrow. Both Obama and Huck are the worst things that can happen to the stock market.
FYI the GOP built the middle class, and they also expanded it. Wasnt too long ago that median income in this country we $35,000. For 2006 it was $68,000. that was built on that so called relic of a dead man- Ronald Reagan and supply side economics.
Redistribution of wealth, which a flat tax is , is just socialism in another format.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:13 am
Who’s going to be invited to the next debate? It seems like it would be a good idea to keep it down to top six. I would kind of like it dwindled down further than that, but I guess Ron Paul earned a stay after winning 10% in Iowa.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:14 am
Jonathan, you as a college student would get a prebate check on the first of each month for several hundred to thousand dollars – you would be untaxed. read up on Fair Tax – http://www.fairtax.org
January 4th, 2008 at 12:14 am
Look at the Iowa stats. Huck won over the conservative candidates and the candidates whose first priority was immigration. Huck will most likely win the nomination now.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:14 am
No, this has nothing to do with the state taxes. If you think about the FairTax, you are only being taxed for what you spend, not for the money you earn and save. As a college student if you’re not working, you’re either getting money from your parents, who will have more money as a result of not having their income taxed, or you are taking out loans. IF you are taking out loans, you’ll be able to pay them back much faster when you don’t have 30% of your income taken out of your check one day.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:14 am
cj, I disagree that a flat tax is redistribution of wealth — quite the reverse!
January 4th, 2008 at 12:15 am
Thanks Brett, I forgot to mention the rebate check.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:15 am
#166 Good points, but my dad is retired and my mom has no income, we don’t pay that much in income taxes anyways
January 4th, 2008 at 12:15 am
Metro, Huckabee’s entire healthcare plan is simply giving incentives for healthy living and doing nothing about healthcare funding.
Huckabee’s tax plan is to drop income taxes to zero.
Those plans are more conservative than Rudy’s. You can say they’re not realistic but Huckabee is proposing more conservative fiscal ideas than Rudy.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:15 am
Eliminate WASTE?!?!?!? The man who increased spending over 50%?!?!?!
January 4th, 2008 at 12:16 am
I think the difference Metro, is whether or not you believe that debt is a tool or a problem. I think its a problem, and will come back to bite our country. Look at the mortgage meltdown, people are living beyond their means on someone elses dime, including the federal government. I think the budget should be balanced, or on track to be balnced rather quickly.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:16 am
“Redistribution of wealth, which a flat tax is , is just socialism in another format”
Huh? The progressive tax is where the rich have to pay a higher percentage than the poor, thereforen, hat would seem more like redistribution of wealth than the flat tax.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:16 am
56% of evangelicals DID NOT VOTE for HUCKABEE! wow. Per Olberman on MSNBC – exit polls
January 4th, 2008 at 12:18 am
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… Mike Huckabee appeals to a lot broader of a base than just evangelicals.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:20 am
#146 what a bunch of BS. Huck has several times used the class warfare thing against Romney. He says how he is so great because he came from nothing and made something of himself and Romney came from privilege and money. Then he says something like I am glad I am one of you.
Come on I know you guys are excited about hucks win tonight, I would be too. But dont lose track of reality in the process.
Huck4 is saying the Huck is conservative in his fiscal policies, so is Econ Grad. Base yourselves in reality.
What Huck is fiscally is a “populist” he says that everyone have their fair share. That is socialism, its not the more virulent kind of socialism we call Marxism, but it is socialism nonetheless.
It is not free market based and is contrary to the economic theory that made this nation what it is
January 4th, 2008 at 12:21 am
A flat tax is the most conservative of tax ideas but it could never be pushed through Congress because it makes no accommodation for the poor like the FairTax does and the Dems would kill it immediately. The FairTax would have a chance based on the rebate, plus with the FairTax even the underground economy (drug dealers, pimps, ho’s, foreign workers) would be paying their share of taxes whereas if we continue to tax legitimate incomes these people get a free pass.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:21 am
econ, I’ve always been a big supporter of the FairTax, in principle. The problem is the transition. In Huck’s case, he is using it as a smokescreen to cover his economic liberalism.
When a candidate openly attacks capitalism, wealth, Wall St, at every opportunity — how could I possibly be convinced he is an economic conservative?
January 4th, 2008 at 12:22 am
#178: agreed Metro, I love Wall Street, and it gets pillored enough in Democrat races
January 4th, 2008 at 12:23 am
Huckabee has never attacked capitalism or wealth. What he has attacked is greed by the top brass on Wall St. hoarding profits while the people that make them rich are left behind. Having such a large gap between the haves and have nots is not a conservative ideal and protections must be put in place.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:23 am
Econ Grad Stud:
I was driving home for the holidays and heard Rush savage Huck and his supporters as ‘intellectually vapid, etc.’ for even trying to paint Huckabee as a conservative. He isn’t conservative on taxes, immigration, or foreign policy. Reagan indeed stood up for certain principles. Not only is Huckabee not a conservative (save Socially), but he has even shown disdain for some of those conservative principles.
Honestly, the more I listen to Huckabee, the more I think he sounds like John Edwards. He is making a big mistake though. It isn’t the CEOs who are driving this country in a wrong direction, it’s politicians who think they know what people need and start meddling in our lives. Huckabee is one of those ‘new deal’ politicians.
If Huckabee becomes President, the U.S. might go the way of France of the first half of the 20th century.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:25 am
#181 I agree. It is time a presidential candidate appeal to those of us in the upper-middle and upper-class, who are more discriminated against than any ethnic group. RICH PEOPLE HAVE RIGHTS TOO!
January 4th, 2008 at 12:25 am
Metro,
I always thought of it- the flat tax as a greater redistribution because it takes deductions and writeoffs out of the equation. So a guy who makes $200K will most likely pay a higher percent than he would otherwise with the flat tax. To me thats take from the rich give to the poor-reward the guy who doesnt offer as much to the market becuase of any number of reasons.
Now my baseline understanding of the flat tax may be wrong, but thats how its always been explained to me. And with that as a base to me it becomes the rich pay more, because they make more
January 4th, 2008 at 12:25 am
Rush never attacked Huckabee until he got his pride hurt by some “anonymous Huckabee supporter”. Then he proceeded to not only make false claims about Huckabee’s record but would not let anyone who tried to correct him about Huckabee’s agenda speak. Tonight showed just how much influence Rush Limbaugh still has in the GOP (almost none) and you should seek out answers for yourself… not depend on this self described “entertainer” for them.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:26 am
The Fair Tax would create unparalleled growth in the economy and would be the best thing that could happen to the American people. Unfortunately, there is simply no way to get it passed. It would take huge Republican majorities in congress, and that is simply not going to happen in the real world. Huck is right to champion it, but it’s not going to happen anytime in the next 10 years. What WILL happen under Huck will be a massive increase in spending and taxation, which is exactly what happened in Arkansas.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:26 am
hmm…the most socialistic candidate wins on both sides…tonite is just another example of why democracy does not work
January 4th, 2008 at 12:28 am
Huck4-
you prove my point. That is economic populism. It sounds great but in reality it is simply not reality, plus my friend it is a talking point right out of Democratic playbook. Its Class warfare.
in essence it says- “You have to hate the rich guy becasue he makes more than you, the system is so unfair, everyone should get their fair share of the pie.
I am not saying that it isnt a valid concern, but it isnt conservative in its nature, that is all
January 4th, 2008 at 12:28 am
Dave, the more the Fair Tax system is explained, the more people like it. Huckabee got huge applause on Leno when he got a chance to talk about it. With enough pressure from the American people which will come about when we have a President who pushes the Fair Tax and educates people about it, many Democrats will come around on it. It won’t take huge GOP majorities, especially with the rebate provision. The Flat Tax is what’s impossible to get passed.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:29 am
Huck, sorry, my wife just arrived home, so I will need to go. Let me see where he said that… Oh, yes, said he in his America’s Priorities in the War on Terror, Islamists, Iraq, Iran and Paskistan which was published in the January/February 2008 issue of Foreign Affairs:
I must admit I overlooked the part way within his report:
This was said almost as an after-thought.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:29 am
SGS, he was talking about reaching out to our allies, not the terrorists!!
January 4th, 2008 at 12:31 am
Dave, the FairTax requires considerable more personal data from you than our current tax system. As such, we will need the IRS-alike department to sort out all of the data to ensure you are paying your share. Not only will it add burden to us, it also increase greatly the burden on state and corporations (both large and small). Why not going with flat tax? It basically is a post card where you just report your entire income, and pay a certain percentage of it. It pretty much has the same benefits as FairTax, without the shortcomings it also has?
January 4th, 2008 at 12:32 am
Huck, pardon me for not deducting that from his open-end statement. I did admit that he made it clear later on that terrorists need to be destroyed. I suppose nothing can satisfy you, unless I bribe you?
January 4th, 2008 at 12:33 am
For those who wan’t to hear Rush’s own words go HERE
Decide for yourselves, and I wouldn’t discount el Rushbo’s judgement or influence.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:33 am
Metro, I don’t think a Republican can be elected without appealing to Americans anger at Wall Street.
Wall Street is less popular than Congress.
Rhetoric is important but when you look at policy everything Huckabee suggests is economically conservative. Huckabee’s rhetoric is simply a shrewd recognition of where American public opinion now stands.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:33 am
191, that is flat out wrong. goto http://www.fairtax.org and to goto faq’s.
You are speaking out of ignorance on this.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:36 am
Huck, you pay taxes on what you spend. The rich people can start buying things from outside of the country (which they already are doing, but they can go further). We middle and poor class won’t be able to get around the 23% surcharge on cars, houses, or other basic essentials. The only way to even the play field is to charge them for their income, regardless of where they make them. Also, you need to repeal the income tax. That is two steps. Brownback has it right in proposing two tax systems, the flat tax and the income tax, and let us picking either one. That is a better route to use.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:40 am
SGS, the rich can’t avoid the Fairtax unless they move out of the US.
If they buy goods overseas they have to pay taxes on them when they bring them into the United States.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:40 am
The fair tax has no chance of passing.
The Aussies tried to implement the Fair tax, and they just increased their tax burden a little from income to sales. Their income is now taxed about the same as Americans, but with the added burden of a 10% Goods and Services tax. Howard wasn’t able to stay in office long enough to eliminate the Income tax.
I agree with Metro; Huck’s Fair Tax is a smokescreen to hide is fiscally liberal policies.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:41 am
#196, i have heard several negative arguments to the FairTax that made more sense. Like, how will you switch from from type of tax to another (during the transition), or what will this to the the black market here locally- but your argument is not an educated one. Do research first- Look at Neal Boortz site and the FairTax site – you will not pay anymore than you do now, and most likely you will pay less.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:45 am
EGS:
I don’t know about that, I have a brother-in-law who’s an Australian musician who bought about $15,000 dollars worth of equipment in the states and brought it back to the Australia just a week ago, where they have a kind of ‘fair tax.’ If I went to Japan and bought a $2,000 laptop, who’s going to know that I didn’t pay a G&S Tax, or that I didn’t already own the laptop when I went to Japan?
January 4th, 2008 at 12:45 am
Joseph, all state and local taxes in Australia were repealed once the GST tax was passed.
The tax burden in Australia is much like America’s except their income tax (combined state and federal) is lower than in America.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:48 am
egs: than how pray tell do the state and local gov’s make money, unless we want a unitary style of gov, that sort of tax system won’t work
January 4th, 2008 at 12:52 am
Brett, of course, the supporters would sugar coat all over their own projects. They won’t accept that there is anything wrong with them. I would rather going with the independent thinking tanks, like Heritage Foundation and Cato Institute, the same organizations that Huckabee love – NOT! Here is one, from FastCheck.org.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:53 am
Jonathon that’s how Australia did it. We wouldn’t replace state and local taxes in our federal system under the Fairtax.
In Australia the GST tax revenue is distributed to the states and localities based on where the taxes are collected.
In New Zealand they have a 12.5% GST duty on any good imported for private use.
January 4th, 2008 at 12:54 am
ESG (#197), Hence one of the reasons for IRS-like department!
January 4th, 2008 at 12:55 am
So we get tariffs instead? That would collapse our economy worse than anything. I think that fairtax supporters are conservatives sick of our current tax system and have decided that this is better. They are wrong, but prncipled about it
January 4th, 2008 at 12:56 am
210:
I am simply trying to illustrate the difficulty of implementing a Fair Tax. Still, few states in the U.S. have a 10% sales tax.
Also, it is debatable whether the Aussie income tax is indeed lower than in America. I suppose it depends on the deductions, but paying 40% of every dollar earned past about $60,000 American dollars.
January 4th, 2008 at 1:01 am
It was pretty obvious that if the evangelicals could rally their churches then nothing was going to keep Mike from taking Iowa. The key was whether they could get the turnout or not and they definately did. It will be interesting to see if his message and unorthodox campaign can translate into non-evangelical territories. I am not convinced that it will, but it will be a fun primary to watch moving forward. I am not a fan of Mike, but intrigued by his ability to maneuver the masses. I guess a good pastor does that for a living, so I shouldn’t be surprised.
January 4th, 2008 at 1:02 am
204:
Huckabee wants to eliminate income tax. The fact is that in Australia and New Zealand, the rich are penalized even more than in America. That is why there aren’t very many rich in those countries compared to America. They pay a consumption tax in addition to the Income tax, and end up having to pay $75,000 for the same Toyota Tundra than would cost half that (taxes and everything) in the states.
January 4th, 2008 at 1:02 am
It’s a complex calculation Joseph since in America we have many state income taxes and in Australia there are no state income taxes.
January 4th, 2008 at 1:05 am
I guess that is one thing that Aus and Texas shares: No state income tax.
True, if you’re talking about New York, then the aussies probably pay less in taxes.
January 4th, 2008 at 1:06 am
[...] also: A ridiculous Romney supporter’s spin on this evening’s huge loss. Justin, how could [...]
January 4th, 2008 at 1:13 am
I have lived in states with high income taxes and no sales tax. I have lived in states with no income taxes and high sales tax. I have lived in a cross breed of both. To be honest, I prefer the cross breed of both being smaller. The idea of paying 23% sales tax is not something I want to even look at even if the federal and state income tax was gone.
January 4th, 2008 at 1:18 am
Romney just got boofed without the benefit of lubrication.
January 4th, 2008 at 3:38 am
Face reality Justin.
Mitt gambled and lost.
January 4th, 2008 at 6:50 am
People say Romney “lost” Iowa. Huck got 17 delegates and Romney got 12. And the tally moves on to the next state….. Let’s not forget. Reagan lost Iowa. My husband told me the LAST time Iowa picked a winner was 1976 – Jimmy Carter. Let the Huck crowd celebrate. It won’t last much longer.