February 2, 2008
Sigh…
As the Founder and Managing Editor of R4′08, I have always made it my goal that no matter who I personally support, I would always strive to provide equal, balanced, and fair coverage to all of the Republican candidates. And although our staff roster has changed throughout our existence, I have always been outnumbered by writers who support candidates other than the one I do- and always by a significant margin.
That has always been OK with me. After all, my mission in founding R4′08 was “ to create a forum for conservatives of different stripes to share their opinions and preferences regarding the race for the 2008 Republican nomination and ultimately the 2008 general election.”
It has also been my solemn vow to follow the Eleventh Commandment to the best of my ability- and in that I feel that I have succeeded as well as any other human being could have. I am very proud that I have never stooped to slandering any candidate that could have ended the race as my Party’s nominee for President. I also pledged to work as hard as I could to help whomever won our Party’s nomination win in November.
So in the spirit of fairness and balance, and wearing my “Editor” hat instead of my “backer of a candidate hat”, I ventured out this evening to attend Gov. Romney’s rally in Edina, MN. After all of the miles I put on my car in the past two years venturing across the Midwest to file Field Reports for the site, how could I possibly justify skipping Gov. Romney’s rally the Saturday before the caucuses in my very own state?
My warm feelings of party unity and non-partisanship were quite-short lived unfortunately, as this is the very first thing that people saw as they entered the event:
Your eyes are not deceiving you… When you walked into the event this evening, it’s phone banks to the right, the stage to your left, and this lady straight ahead.
So we have now reached the point of the complete Coulterization of discourse from Sen. McCain’s opponents. It is no longer a simple matter of disagreement on policy-it’s Treason.
Because Sen. McCain has a different position on Immigration than Gov. Romney’s current one, it is apparently totally within bounds to throw Sen. McCain’s valiant, honorable, and costly service to our nation in the trash and equate him with the greatest traitor in American History.
I no longer recognize my party. This is not my Republican Party-the party of Ronald Reagan and his beloved Eleventh Commandment. We are now no better than the Nutroots of the Left and their scorched Earth, slash and burn tactics-the politics of absolute and utter destruction.
So there is no Field Report folks. I turned my head in shame and went home.
http://race42008.com/2008/02/02/sigh/trackback/
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:47 pm
As for me, I’ll be happy when this is over. This is all getting a bit too unhealthy.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:47 pm
These Romney supporters ought to be ashamed of themselves. Not only are they being disingenuous about their candidate’s concern over the issue, they are selling the GOP down the river by this kind of rhetoric - all in the name of some perceived short term political gain - which isn’t even materializing.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Kavon,
I disagree with McCain…..GREATLY…..but I’m sure I will vote for him if he is our nominee……
And it is too bad…..
About the wasted drive…..
Thanks for eveything….again…..
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:48 pm
And as for the poster this hot mama is holding - that doesn’t even dignify a response.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Not to defend the sign too much, but I think her point is that a war hero doesn’t make one a political hero, not that McCain is a traitor to the nation.
the larger point is, we see a surge of support for Romney coming from all people who hate McCain. It is starting to remind me of NH Democrat race. We saw polls looking good for Obama, real goo, but then we have enough pissed off people showing up on vorting day. In Hillary’s case it was women, in Mitt’s case it could be conservatives.
Either way, you can’t hold this lady too hard, McCain’s people have said plenty of crap about Romney.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:51 pm
I am so sorry you found this when you went to Governor Romney’s rally. I assure you he would not condone such propaganda, but people do have free speech. I am sorry that one person’s bad behavior made you miss the rally. Our party has become very divided and it is sad.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:52 pm
There are supporters like this on every campaign. Look at Ron Paul’s. They verbally attacked Sean Hannity about a month ago.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:52 pm
kavon, i think you are overeacting a little bit. the race is not over. these types of things are being done to romney just the same. its called politics.
its not over until its over. stop complaining about people still not wanting to get around mccain. mccain has been poking his finger in the eyes of many conservatives the past seven years. they have every right to make their voice heard. these people you point out are crazy and we would do better without them, yes, but i can probably find just as many such tactics going around right now against romney.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:53 pm
when its over, this will eventually die down. you are op gunder the assumption that this race is wrapped up. if you haven’t notice romney’s numbers are still going up and both are spending plenty of money still.
its not over. stop telling everybody to stop attacking mccain!
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:53 pm
I soooooooooooo agree with the above posting. Congratulations.
John McCain GO TO HELL.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:54 pm
I hear you, fortunately that woman, though supporting Romney, does not represent him. I wrote on my blog about 5 or 6 months ago that Anne Coulter was the biggest threat to the GOP. She is completely awful and you are right about the Coulterization of our party. What a shame.
However, I don’t think there is any blame on Romney for any of this. I think he would do more to unite the party and bring more pragmatic and less idealistic talk back into the party. Something I think we need.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:54 pm
that said, the vitriol and negative tone the campaigns have reached is really reaching fever pitch. hopefully things will clear up soon.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:54 pm
This is a Numbers USA person.
They’ve been on the warpath against Mccain. They were tracking him everywhere in FL and doing this kind of stuff. They want any and all the publicity they can get (and it looks like Kavon is obliging).
9/11 truthers go to Obama and Clinton rallies and often ask questions at town-hall meetings.
That Kavon is trying to paint Romney poorly because of this fringe group’s action is missing the point completely. Kavon may not recognize his party, but I don’t recognize the once fair-minded and largely objective Kavon anymore.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:55 pm
I’m speechless…
You have followed the bitter race between the republicans and against the democrats all year long and this was too much for you? Yeah, that lady may be a kook, but I’m blown away that after you drove all the way out to that event and this was enough to do you in? If you can’t take one lady holding a sign, how are you going to survive the general elections?
Truly I’m disappointed in you almost as much as I’m disappointed in that lady.
I wonder - if you drove out to a McCain event and found a person holding a sign making fun of Romney’s religion, would you have been so offended? Be careful, your bias is showing.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Kavon,
You have admirably upheld the mission of this site. And while I disagreed with your choice of candidate, have hope. Looking at this woman, you say, “I no longer recognize my party.” But this woman is not your party. She’s just a person. And a slightly eccentric one, by the look of her. The ideals that Republicans hold in common are bigger than the points that divide us, and you’ll see the proof this Fall!
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Kavon,
I don’t understand why you still didn’t stay and listen to Romney. You missed out. Romney is a well-spoken and charismatic individual. I was blown away at how well he spoke when i went to one of his campaign dinners.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Her outfit really clashes. And I’m no fashion guru. I think she could have made a more intelligent sign, but with 300 million people in the country, you’re bound to get some extremes. This may have been spawned by the Kerry/McCain 04 debacle.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:58 pm
So we have now reached the point of the complete Coulterization of discourse from Sen. McCain’s opponents. It is no longer a simple matter of disagreement on policy. It’s Treason.
So, in your first sentence there, you accuse others of “Coulterizing” discourse, and then go on to call someone a traitor for their political thoughts? I’ll let that speak for itself.
I second Jason’s #5, too:
Not to defend the sign too much, but I think her point is that a war hero doesn’t make one a political hero, not that McCain is a traitor to the nation.
It just goes back to what I’ve been saying — being tortured by Vietnamese thugs does not entitle one to the presidency.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Swint,
“However, I don’t think there is any blame on Romney for any of this. I think he would do more to unite the party and bring more pragmatic and less idealistic talk back into the party. Something I think we need.”
That’s not true. Romney was the first person in this contest to go negative. And his rhetoric on immigration is hateful and not helpful to the party. Remember when he kept interrupting McCain “Do they get to stay? Do they get to stay?” in the debate when illegal immigration came up? As if Romney is going to deport 10+ million people. It’s posturing for political purposes. It drives Hispanics away from the party at the same time they are an ever-increasing share of the electorate. Romney (and Coulter and Rush and Ingraham et al) is responsible for doing to the national party the same thing that has happened to the California GOP.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Her outfit really clashes. And I’m no fashion guru. I think she could have made a more intelligent sign, but with 300 million people in the country, you’re bound to get some extremes. This may have been spawned by the Kerry/McCain 04 debacle.
I agree. What an atrocious outfit.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Jeff,
This was the first person that people saw when they walked into the room at Mitt’s event in Edina, MN this evening. She was 3 feet from, and directly in front of, the registration table that was manned by half a dozen Romney staffers.
They allowed her to stand at the entrance and “greet” everyone who walked in the room.
What would you call this other than an endorsement of her message?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Using anecdotal evidence like this to smear an entire campaign is just plain wrong, though, Kavon.
It’s so much easier to bash Romney’s camp than that — hell, they’ve got a sleazy guy as their candidate! Why waste time on measly fringe supporters?
I’m a Paul supporter now. Are you going to lump me in with 9/11 Truthers?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Oh, on my 18 — I misunderstood your thought, Kavon. You were referring to that girl’s thoughts — okay. Might want to clarify that in your OP.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:02 pm
TLG #18,
Please read the post again. Where did I call anyone a traitor?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:02 pm
uh, maybe drive around a bit more - you’ll find a few side-shows at most of the events - regardless of the candidate
- Convicts for Huckabee
- Flippers for Mitt
- Drag queens for Rudy
- Senior Citizens for Fred
It’s funny. Lighten up a bit.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:04 pm
worse things have been said about mitt. just because an isolated citizen is mean spirited doesn’t mean the party is unrecognizable. However, the party and the label conservative are unrecognizable to me right now. Right now, it seems that to be a conservative means that you think the iraq war was a bad idea, you love guns, you dislike gays on a personal level, and you think the bible should dictate public policy. I used to think I’m a conservative, but I think the iraq war was a terrible unnecessary thing, i dont own any guns, i dont have any personal problem with gays, and I think the Bible is best used in churches. so, who knows any more. what do people who agree with ron paul call themselves? libertarians? neo-libertarians? pro-life libertarians?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:04 pm
The CA GOP didn’t loose because of anti illegal immigration rhetoric. That’s just a story the moderate wing of the party likes to tell itself. We lost because of a variety of things happened to the CA GOP during the late 80s and early 90s. The two biggest things were that Reagan granted amnesty (a large number being in CA). Most hispanic voters are democrats (largely becuase of economics) and as such this added to the democrat voter rolls.
The other issue was that a lot of middle to upper middle class whites, that worked for the defense industry, began leaving california along with those jobs. It is the combination of these two things that led to the downfall of the CA GOP, not prop 187.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:05 pm
TLG #22,
See my #21.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Kavon,
I think TLG is reading your line that ends with the sentence “It’s treason.” It can be read a couple different ways. But I think you meant that she was implying McCain was treasonous, not that to hate McCain so much is treasonous. It’s a little vague, I had to think about it twoce.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:06 pm
worse things have been said about mitt. just because an isolated citizen is mean spirited doesn’t mean the party is unrecognizable. However, the party and the label conservative are unrecognizable to me right now. Right now, it seems that to be a conservative means that you think the iraq war was a bad idea, you love guns, you dislike gays on a personal level, and you think the bible should dictate public policy. I used to think I’m a conservative, but I think the iraq war was a terrible unnecessary thing, i dont own any guns, i dont have any personal problem with gays, and I think the Bible is best used in churches. so, who knows any more. what do people who agree with ron paul call themselves? libertarians? neo-libertarians? pro-life libertarians?
If that was all it meant to be a Republican, do you think I’d be in the party? Haha. I still hold out some vestiges of hope that the party will reach back to some sort of semblance of the beliefs that it held in the Goldwater era.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:06 pm
“So in the spirit of fairness and balance, and wearing my “Editorâ€? hat instead of my “backer of a candidate hatâ€?, I ventured out this evening to attend Gov. Romney’s rally in Edina, MN.”
Too bad you couldn’t keep that ‘editor’ hat on for more than two steps into the room. I wonder how that thought process went: “This crazy lady’s valid criticism that my candidate leverages his significant suffering for political gain offends me so much i just can’t go on! Get this editor hat off. I’m not hear for fact gathering. I’m not hear to listen to Romney. Some random homeless lady cardboard sign has offended more than life itself. I’m going home.”
Quality journalism.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
#19 Adam,
You can go on Romney’s website to see his “negative adds”. They are contrasting positions and are completely true. He has not been telling complete falsehoods like some other candidates. If any of these candidates go against Hillary Clinton, they won’t know what hit them.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Well, things appear to be skiing downhill quickly. And that reminds me of Romney family outings of old. And the new tactics of anything goes remind me of how Hillary directed the responses to any of Bill’s “bimbo eruptions” — by driving those women into the dirt!
Ah, well. If this works for Mitt, I’ll fall back on Popper (no matter how much his good name has been hijacked by Soros):
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
SD,
I agree with you on the White Flight issue. But how come Hispanics in CA vote for Republicans in far smaller percentages than Hispanics in TX? The tone of the debate plays a big role in it.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
TLG,
I for one like Paul, and actually like his talk on the Gold Standard.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Kavon,
If this was a McCain rally and the sign was against Romney, would you have still gone in? I read your post a second time, and you over reacted quite a bit.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
#23 % #29,
I see your point. I corrected that sentence.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
TLG #22, See my #21.
Romney can’t be responsible for what any of his staffers allow or disallow. They might not have even known if they had the authority to make her stop — do you even know? Did you even inquire about the woman to the staffers before you walked away in disgust? I just think it’s better to try to compile all the evidence that you can about the situation at hand before losing your cool over it.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:08 pm
Just say NO to cult members.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Kavon….You want FREE…I say FREE SPEECH….this is America. If this is all it takes for you to take you ball and go home from the party SHAME ON YOU….you must have already decided any excuse to not attend would be alright..If you’re that thin skinned get out of politics. Anyway what have Americans called Pres Bush…..alot worse and it’s been from all parties. What do you expect when people see the debates and McCain and Huck are ignorant and rude to Ron Paul..Romeny and anyone else that they don’t feel is their equal….All I can Say is SAD
But….GO MITT!!!!!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Tim,
and these are cult members are who?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Adam,
I forget the % in texas, but i think the CA GOP gets around 30-35% of hispanics, while the texas gop gets like 45-50%. I think thats largely a product of bush and his outreach to the hispanics in that state. That’s something the CA GOP doesn’t do very well, reach out to them on other issues.
I don’t think we will alienate hispanics if we approach the issue of illegal immigration carefully, most hispanics oppose illegal immigration as well. 60+ Percent of hispanics voted for Prop 187 in CA and a simalar number for the arizona equivilent a few years back.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Hey the name CT in #40 makes me wonder what ever happened to KT?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Also, about this — I no longer recognize my party. This is not my Republican Party- the party of Ronald Reagan and his beloved Eleventh Commandment. We are now no better than the Nutroots of the Left and their scorched Earth, slash and burn tactics- the politics of absolute and utter destruction.
The “11th Commandment” is an utterly preposterous idea to begin with; we can’t form a coherent agenda if being a good Republican means that we’re NEVER ALLOWED TO UTTER ANY CRITICISM, EVER. Sometimes criticism is quite valid. It keeps people on the right track, sometimes.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Tim, and these are cult members are who?
Mormonzzzz
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Jeffrey #25,
I have attended probably 50 events in this cycle. And yes, I have seen the “Huckabee Convict” and I have even interviewed “Flip the Dolphin“.
I think what people have failed to realize is that she was inside the event, at the front of the room, and 3-4 feet from the registration table.
Normally, these folks are not allowed inside the event. If she was outside on the sidewalk holding this sign, I would have chuckled and went about my business.
The fact that she was allowed inside the event and was in plain view of the folks running the show amounts to an endorsement of her message. Which, once again, is that Sen. McCain’s position on Immigration makes him equivalent to the greatest traitor in American History.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:14 pm
TLG,
I can assure you I’m not in a cult. I’m sure your shocked, but no the Mormon religion is not a cult.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:14 pm
That picture and message are disgusting. The Romney staff should have thrown her ass out of there unless they want people to assume that they and their candidate approve of such ideas
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:15 pm
I can assure you I’m not in a cult. I’m sure your shocked, but no the Mormon religion is not a cult.
It was a joke.
I find all religion cult-like.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Kavon. . . Let me get this straight. . .You drove all the way to see Romney, saw this woman, and then left without actually seeing Romney? You’re kidding right? Or did you actually waste an entire day and this post because of one out-of-the-ordinary woman? Very weak anti-Romney post, Kavon. I expect much better from you and this site. I suppose now we should all ignore your hard work on R4′08 because of the one or two stupid comments made by some other people here. After all, you just explained that the message of one man is less important than that of one of his supporters.
I’ve always been very calm in my post replies, and this might get me kicked off, but this post may be the most assinine thing I’ve seen here in the more than one year I’ve been reading and responding on this site.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:15 pm
I think TLG believes all religions are cultlike. Don’t take it personally
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:15 pm
“I don’t think we will alienate hispanics if we approach the issue of illegal immigration carefully, most hispanics oppose illegal immigration as well.”
Agreed. But that starts with the realization that the millions already here aren’t going to leave. By all means, secure the border - and then we’ll work out a path to citizenship that involved learning English, fines, etc. But when politicians like Romney in a debate yell out “Do you make them leave? Do you make them leave?” as if to catch McCain or anyone else in some kind of gotcha moment for cheap political gain is not helpful. And it’s a good way to drive that 30 or 40 percent that are receptive to the GOP message down to zero.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:16 pm
TLG,
I know it was. So you don’t beleive in diety at all?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:16 pm
51 — See 49.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:16 pm
TLG #38,
Campaigns are responsible for whom they allow in to their events. It was held on private property, anyone, or any message, could be asked to leave an event such as this.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:17 pm
I agree with the others here that it’s part of politics and the passion is for a cause and less about the candidates. Fairness and decorum aren’t figuring in, it’s all about amplifying the cause. While it got little press coverage, except for here in Florida, Operation Rescue was out and proud confronting Giuliani at most of his stops in the closing days. And yes, they brought pictures, huge ones. So when Giuliani visited a city, the people heard via there local news what the protesters had to say and forced people to confront the fact that Giuliani was pro-choice. I don’t think these people, including your woman, are thinking about what’s good for the party or even what’s good for a candidate they may support, it’s all about whatever issue they are passionate about and trying to force others to take notice.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Ooh, Tier, you must not have been here long. I’m the resident Republican that shouldn’t statistically be son; the teenage gay atheist that listens to metal music from a blue state.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Alaska Jake #50,
I find no offense in your opinion, and I am sorry if I have let you down.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Kavon,
I went to a Romney rally at the Romney HQ in Iowa nearly a year ago and the first person I saw when entering was “Flipper the Dolphin” (a special gift from the Brownback campaign).
I guess you can read into this lady whatever you want, but it may have been an episode of “wrong-place/wrong-time” or just an example of free-speech.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:19 pm
oh
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:19 pm
Well, i think they should go home before they re-apply, its an insult to millions of people who did it the right way. My parents are democrats, but they came here the legal way and are fuming mad about the amnesty being proposed.
There’s also the idea that people will leave by default once you start enforcing the laws. In Arizona as employers are punished for hiring illegals many of them are leaving the state and going back. If they can’t be hired legally, most will just go home. This is what happened back in the 50s when Eisenhower did Operation Wetback(yes, that was the actual name). Granted they did deport a couple hundred thousand, but millions more self deported as the feds started cracking down.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:19 pm
TLG,
Yes i saw that but it came up as i was typing my post. Clearly you are a much faster typer than i.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:19 pm
58. . . As a Romney guy, I would have found your recounting of the actual Romney rally much more interesting than your dismissal of this woman. But maybe that’s just me.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:19 pm
This is beyond passion though Emily, this is warped hatred. We Republicans keep talking about Bush Derangment Syndrome, well I think there are some out there with McCain Derangment Syndrome; people who are blinded by an irrational hatred of the Senator. It’s not healthy or helpful to anyone
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Campaigns are responsible for whom they allow in to their events. It was held on private property, anyone, or any message, could be asked to leave an event such as this.
I just think that this is a form of Monday-morning quarterbacking. You clearly did not inquire about the woman to the staffers, so I think that you’re jumping to conclusions about the situation. You weren’t even there for long enough to know how long the woman had been there — or if she was even asked to leave later, or what the status of the situation was.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:20 pm
57 — Son = One. I have no idea why I typed “son” instead of “one” — Haha.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Kavon,
If you had gone to a rudy event, and seen the same thing from a rudy supporter, would you have left without hearing rudy talk?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:21 pm
I’m a strong Romney supporter, and the lady and sign is not appropriate. It probably hurts Mitt a lot more than it hurts him, because people that go there are still trying to make up there minds. Its no only distasteful, and not appropriate, but also not smart. This is a reflection on the lady and those in charge of the event that knew about her.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Politics is never nobler than the culture.
As our culture has degraded we should expect politics to become dishonorable and lose it’s remaining virtue.
This isn’t just the Republican Party or the “Left Nutroots”. This is the America of 2008.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
#66, I thought you were giving him a talking to and saying ” I shouldn’t even be, SON” adding the son for emphasis. so it worked either way
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
When Huck and McCain have passionate supporters show up at their rallies, it’s ok. When Romney has passionate supporters show up, they’re kooks and mormon cultists. I’m beginning to understand how things work.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
SD,
Well I’m probably more liberal on the issue than you. I think the U.S. fostered a win and nod approach to illegal immigration for too long. But the problem does need to be solved and the border needs to be secured. I think that the public at large would be okay with granting citizenship to those here provided that pay back taxes and learn English - as long as the border is demonstrably secured.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Politics is never nobler than the culture. As our culture has degraded we should expect politics to become dishonorable and lose it’s remaining virtue. This isn’t just the Republican Party or the “Left Nutroots�. This is the America of 2008.
Would you people calm down?
I hate it when people jump to conclusions based upon anecdotal evidence. This is one woman out of how many people that were at the rally?
I hate Romney and the Rombots as much as the next sane person, but come on.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
46 …
I think you’re reading more into this than is there to say that this person’s sees McCain as an equal with Benedict Arnold. I don’t see anything that says they see McCain as a traitor for any reason.
It seems to me that all the sign says is that Arnold was a war hero, too. We have had good presidents who have come from the military, but just because one has served this country doesn’t mean that you are entitled to lead it.
Where does this person’s sign say that McCain is a traitor? Oh, wait, you made that part up–probably after you took your editor hat off.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
How do we know this isn’t Kavon in a wig in his mother’s basement?
How do we know she was there to attend the event like everyone else but saw someone with a camera and decided to pose?
In Iran gay men are hanged; in Saudi Arabia women who “allow” themselves to be raped are subject to 50 lashes; in Egypt students are being jailed for blogging; and in Russia investigative reporters are murdered, political parties are harrassed, and Putin confiscates the property of his political appointments. Please excuse me if I don’t lose sleep over a sign.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:23 pm
err…. US fostered a Wink and not approach
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:23 pm
#66, I thought you were giving him a talking to and saying � I shouldn’t even be, SON� adding the son for emphasis. so it worked either way
Shoulda been dat way, yo.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:24 pm
In Iran gay men are hanged; in Saudi Arabia women who “allow� themselves to be raped are subject to 50 lashes; in Egypt students are being jailed for blogging; and in Russia investigative reporters are murdered, political parties are harrassed,
Stop insulting the Religion of Peace!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:25 pm
You hate us TLG? I thought we were facebook buddies.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:25 pm
I think you’re reading more into this than is there to say that this person’s sees McCain as an equal with Benedict Arnold. I don’t see anything that says they see McCain as a traitor for any reason. It seems to me that all the sign says is that Arnold was a war hero, too. We have had good presidents who have come from the military, but just because one has served this country doesn’t mean that you are entitled to lead it. Where does this person’s sign say that McCain is a traitor? Oh, wait, you made that part up–probably after you took your editor hat off.
Technically speaking, no. It doesn’t say that. However, the implication is more than clear, given the context of the situation. She wasn’t there to rationally expose a logical fallacy in the name of truth. She was there to stir up the pot.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:25 pm
TLG: Russia ain’t Muslim they are Eastern Orthodox
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:27 pm
TLG: Russia ain’t Muslim they are Eastern Orthodox
I’m well aware of that; he also mentioned Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Egypt. 75% trumps 25%!
You hate us TLG? I thought we were facebook buddies.
It’s a dispassionate hatred at this point; Romney is finished — as is Rudy, so I can observe this race with my analytical hat more often rather than my I[HEART]RUDY!!!!1 hat — so my hatred for Romney is now half-hearted…you should write on my wall sometime, Bonham! Add some of the political applications I have on mine, too!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:27 pm
Adam(#72),
I think you are right about the citizenship thing. While i think they should go home and re-apply, i’d be somewhat willing to accept citizenship(back of the line/blah/blah/blah) IF i knew this was the last time and they would genuinely secure the border. Problem is i don’t believe the government will secure the border and i highly doubt this will be the last time.
If the government were to prove over a period of years that the borders were secure, employers were being punished when they hired illegals, i’d be somewhat willing to accept it.
Problem is, i don’t trust Mccain to do this. He was leading the fight to stop the enforcement first approach.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:28 pm
Jonathan, I think they are Russian Orthodox.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Russian and Eastern Orthodox are two different churches.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:29 pm
SDgop,
It is tricky with the whole immigration thing. I live in an agricultural area with a large hispanic population. I am not being racist at all, but a majority of the hispanics work on the farms. People don’t understand that farmers are finding labor shortages. (ya imagine that with a unemplyoment percent at 5%.) I can tell you first hand that it won’t work sending millions of immigrants backk. One example: A family friend attempted to get a worker legal. It cost 10,000 dollars to do. Well after a period of time, they checked with the government and they had lost all the documentation that was given several months earlier. So after time and 10k the man got that shaft. The immigration system is a mess.Amnesty seems too easy, but we may need some kind of it.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:29 pm
I always thought Eastern Orthodox and Russian Orthodox were one in the same, but I could be wrong.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Sdgop, that was in response to the first part of 61.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Dick Cheney should be glad no one was at his birthday party to hear him refer to Obama as the black sheep in the family (which is also how Obama refers to Cheney). Hard to believe Cheney is only 67.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Tier,
I agree this amnesty thing is a tricky business. Problem is while the farmers do get cheap workers and that gives us ‘cheaper’ food, we are effectively subdizing that food through other costs(the free healthcare we give them, education,etc.). If we were to replace those workers with normal american ones, the cost of food would go up slightly, but it’d still be cheaper than the overall net cost we pay to have those illegals here.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:31 pm
I thought that they were Eastern Orthodox, too…
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:32 pm
Joe C. #67,
I attended maybe 15 Rudy events, and never saw anything like this INSIDE an event.
You can believe me or not believe me, but I would no longer have supported Rudy, or any other candidate, had this kind of nonsense been going on in their events regularly.
Some people here are just not strict Republicans, and that is fine. However, I am a lifelong Republican and I will always, to the best of my ability, strive to adhere to Ronald Reagan’s 11th Commandment.
And by the way… I do not know if anyone noticed that I haven’t mentioned Mitt here at all. I am sure that he had no knowledge of this and would have told his staffers to get rid of her had he known she was there. I don’t think that anyone should switch their allegiance from Mitt based solely on this.
It’s the fact that we have gotten to the point where this kind of discourse is not only allowed, but that no one even sees what’s wrong with it that makes me sad.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:33 pm
I for one like Paul, and actually like his talk on the Gold Standard.
As a chemist, I can tell you that any monetary standard based on the availability of a substance (gold, platinum, silver, whatever) is a very bad idea going forward. Gold markets are set to change drastically in the coming years, and pinning our currency to it would be a source of instability, not stability. Credit is the way to go.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:33 pm
Pretty positive. The Head of the Russian orthodox church lives in Moscow, I know because I was on boat like 2 days after he was on the Volga river and all the Russians were up in arms. Plus you can buy bottled water that has his special blessing.
But I think they parallel themselves w/r/t doctrine and stuff.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:33 pm
The Glorious Wiki sez: Note: Members of the Eastern Orthodox Church do not usually refer to themselves as “Eastern” Orthodox but rather with a prefix denoting their nation of origin. Thus, within this article, the terms “Greek”, “Russian”, or any other “National” Orthodox; as well as The Church, The Orthodox Church, The Byzantine Church, etc., all refer to a single unified entity, what is today commonly called the Eastern Orthodox Church.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:33 pm
That was no lady, that is Rudy Giuliani in drag.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:34 pm
It’s a man baby
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:34 pm
Thanks TLG: We students bow before the great and wise Wikipedia
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:35 pm
And by the way… I do not know if anyone noticed that I haven’t mentioned Mitt here at all. I am sure that he had no knowledge of this at all and would have told his staffers to get rid of her had he known she was there. I don’t think that anyone should switch their allegiance from Mitt based solely on this. It’s the fact that we have gotten to the point where this kind of discourse is not only allowed, but that no one even sees what’s wrong with it that makes me sad.
You just saw it and walked away. The situation very well may have been what you described, and it’s not honorable. But I’ve got to roll my eyes rather than take up arms with you, because you didn’t even inquire to the staffers about the situation. You’d rather be disgusted with the situation than get to the bottom of it. Fringe elements exist; they always have. The fact that you saw one tonight doesn’t confirm or invalidate anything about the state of the party, especially since it’s just anecdotal evidence, anyway.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:35 pm
Thanks TLG: We students bow before the great and wise Wikipedia
All hail the Glorious Wiki, our Master and Great Leader!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:36 pm
TLG but if you look up Russian Orthodox onwiki it says they have communion but there is no reporting of the two or hierarchal structure between the two. Eastern Ortho has their patrarch and Russian Ortho has theirs.
Stupid point of minutia.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:36 pm
OK… I missed the whole segway into the Russian Orthodox Church.
Being one of the few people here who has actually stepped foot in a Russian Orthodox Church, I may be able to answer some questions on it.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:36 pm
TLG, is the rhetoric in this race worse than in previous primaries?
I’d say yes.
Partly the internet culture is to blame. It gives an outlet where people can freely vent with rhetoric as harsh as they’d like. Meanwhile it frames the discussion in harsh tones.
This example that upsets Kavon is just a reflection of America’s irreverent and disrespectful culture.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:37 pm
The Russian Orthodox Church; or The Moscow Patriarchate (Russian: ??????? ???????????? ???????; or ?????????? ?????????? (the latter designation being another official name[1]) since 1943; ????????? ?????????? ???????????? ??????? before the reinstitution in 1943), also known as the Orthodox Christian Church of Russia, is a body of Christians who constitute an autocephalous Eastern Orthodox Church under the jurisdiction of the Patriarch of Moscow, in communion with the other Eastern Orthodox Churches.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:38 pm
OK and that was a joke. But Kavon seems a little disengenuous here. Spell check the word for me, but Kavon thinks this woman works for Romney’s campaign? Even if she manages Romney’s campaign, Kavon would be better served looking at the issues rather than the slogans and dress code. Not credible Kav.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:38 pm
I feel that TLG is about to Facebook-defriend me as well.
Come on A., we can survive the whole McCain thing can’t we?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:38 pm
Kavon, I’ve stepped foot in tons of them. Spent a month there.
those question marks are cyrillic, apparently wordpress no comprende (no irreverancy implied here)
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:38 pm
104 — Great clarification, but even TLG doesn’t know what “autocephalous” means! Autocephalous isn’t even a word, according to Firefox’s spell check!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:39 pm
I feel that TLG is about to Facebook-defriended me as well. Come on A., we can survive the whole McCain thing can’t we?
u r so off my bl, kavon
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Eastern Orthodoxy is composed of autocephalous national Churches.
That’s why you see Armenian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Serbian Orthodox, etc.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Kavon,
Not to trump you, but show we have something in common.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:40 pm
I might convert to Russian Orthodox. I was raised Catholic, my wife is Orthodox, so I may make the switch for her since it’s so important to her.
Even the priest at the R.O. Church we visited said there’s essentially no difference.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:40 pm
I feel that TLG is about to Facebook-defriended me as well. Come on A., we can survive the whole McCain thing can’t we?
Haha, in all seriousness: of course not. It’s not a personal argument, it’s a political disagreement. Something that people should know about me: I may get into a heated debate about politics, but it’s never personal. I try to look at everything here from a detached perspective. It’s not about us, it’s about the issues.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:40 pm
It’s not so much about issues as personalty. That woman wasn’t even so much pro-Romney as vociferously anti-McCain. The Romney camp should have politely asked her to either put the sign away or given her a pro-Romney sign instead.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:41 pm
EGS,
Enlighten me then, are they related symbolically, or do they actually have a functional relationship, where they all answer to the same hierarchal dude or what?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Jason,
I lived in Russia for a while too! Another crazy thing we have in common!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Kavon,
WHy Russian?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Kavon: The only real difference is between Pope and Patriarch. My family chose Pope ourselves
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Where did you live?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Oh, and TLG is a self-confessed hater. Can’t respect that.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Jason #117,
Because that’s what her religion is.
Why we can’t just go to one of the 170,000,000 Catholic Churches we have in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area is beyond me…
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Campaign rhetoric, negative ads, etc go back to the beginning of American political history. It was much worse, in fact, in the days before these modern times with our fact-checkers and “objective” journalists. Back in the day, it was anything goes - lies, slander, unethical campaigning was the norm. If a candidate’s personal life wasn’t immoral enough, the opposition just created new, more immoral stories about him.
This woman at the Romney rally represented herself and her movement. Was she a bit off-topic? Probably. Was she passionate about one single issue? Most definitely. Was she representative of the campaign and the candidate? Of course not. (You can be sure that had the campaign kicked her out of the rally out that would have really overshadowed the event.) As it is, we won’t know what was said at the rally by the actual candidate because even though this site had a representative at the event, he turned around and left before hearing what the candidate said.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Jonathan,
Yeah… But at least you get to sit down in Catholic Mass.
Those Russians don’t fool around!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Probably my trip to Russia was one of the best months of my life. We spent like 2.5 weeks on a boat on the volga, and all I ate was bread and Dannon Yogurt.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Jason, they all have origins in the Bishop of Constantinople.
When Constantinople fell each Orthodox Church became functionally independent.
They all have the same doctrine and have similar liturgies (in national languages).
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:46 pm
And the showers were 2 inch deep in river scum or something, and you had to carry your own TP every where, because people don’t supply it.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:46 pm
Wow I guess we’re no longer discussing the Romney rally!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:46 pm
EGS,
So they are ran separately but similar in oigin and doctrine?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:47 pm
My Protestant friends think we have an aerboics class. Stand up, kneel, sit down, they get darn near exhausted trying to follow us.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:48 pm
Oh, and TLG is a self-confessed hater. Can’t respect that.
Hater of what?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:49 pm
Jason #128,
That’s how I understand it. There all the same religion, but they each have their own leadership structure.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:49 pm
I’m interested, though I’ll make myself invisible. My Oma was Russian and married a German; a Lutheran Minister no less. Mean woman, but tough as nails. She migrated on foot out of Russia, ended up in South America. Fascinating woman, I’m fascinated about Russia and ANY talk of religion there.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:49 pm
It’s a little closer than that.
The national Patriarchs often will meet and they tend to have close relations even without a functional heirarchy.
Ironically they have a formal heirarchy (the Bishop of Istanbul) they just don’t use that heirarchy anymore.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Damn those Ottoman Turks. If they hadn’t captured Constantinople/Istanbul, there wouidn’t be this confusion
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:50 pm
When’s the knock-down, drag-out fight over three fingers vs. two fingers and a thumb coming?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:50 pm
#Mormonzzz, but probably not limited to just that, eh? ‘Fess up.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Jonathan #129,
Funny, that’s what my Protestant friends say too!
Did you go to Catholic School?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:51 pm
#Mormonzzz, but probably not limited to just that, eh? ‘Fess up.
Already did. See my #49.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:52 pm
I’m currently at a Catholic college and elementary and middle school were Catholic school days as well. No nuns though
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:52 pm
MarkG the filoque clause would be a thornier issue. Liturgies…
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Liz,
I know exactly what your Grandma must have been like! These women are just cut from a different cloth than anyone else on Earth. They are stronger than steel and Lord help you if you make them angry!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Some joke TLG. You make me nervous. I find haters cult-like. ’specially when they get the mob mentality. Be nice now and reassure everyone you don’t mean it.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Jonathan #139,
I am older than you then. I am old enough to have been taught by real-live nuns.
You have to have experienced it yourself to understand what these old-school women where like. They were awesome. True servants.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Although I don’t like what the lady was doing, I certainly think you over reacted by leaving. I was at about 8 Romney events in Iowa, and there certainly was nothing like this. But, having said that, I see worse stuff that that said about Mitt Romney in every thread thoughout the day right here on good ole race42008.com. I think you should have expressed your displeasure at what you saw, then went on and listened to Mitt and shook his hand afterwards and looked into his eyes and come away with the feeling that Mitt Romney is an amazingly good man. Go Mitt!!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:55 pm
#134
Jonathon, Constantinople was sacked by Catholic Christians in 1204. That was when the divided Orthodoxy began.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Some joke TLG. You make me nervous. I find haters cult-like. ’specially when they get the mob mentality. Be nice now and reassure everyone you don’t mean it.
That I don’t mean what? For more clarification, see my 57, and tell me if you think, after reading that, that I’d ever be the kind of person that would get the “mob mentality”!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:55 pm
90..SDGOP
But i will say one thing. The average normal american does not want the jobs that are on the farms here. We need immigrants, whether legal or not. That is why we need to find a solution to this mess. I don’t want to sound holier than thou, but the average urban american has no clue that sending all the immigrants back to their country will cripple America. They just percieve it as a bunch of people who came over illegal. They don’t understand that as much as they hurt us (healthcare i.e.) we need them as well. Amnesty sounds crazy, but it may be needed.
It is much more complicated than that. I do not want to go into the depth right now, it is time to raid the refrigerator.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:56 pm
My dad was taught by nuns. One time a kid in his 8th grade mouthed off and this little 5 foot nun came up and punched him in the face. Knocked him out cold. Don’t mess with the sisters
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:56 pm
#141 I was going to be invisible, but you KNEW my oma! Stronger than galvanized steel. That is exactly what she was like. And she could make a mean spinach pan-cake (she called it something else and I’m not sure it was spinach truth be told) but boy, would she lose it when we could barely choke it down. Not even 5 feet tall, but she could wield the stick like someone from the medieval ages if we came across as defiant.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:56 pm
I am not quite sure you actually understand the history of the Russian Orthodox Church, which separated itself from Constantinople in the 16th century and established the first patriarch of Moscow. I recall from the biography of Peter the Great by Massie that the Russian Church considers itself “the true faith.” But Russians have always been xenophobic.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:58 pm
148..Jonathon..hilarious.
lol
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:59 pm
Tier,
A point to think about… there was a study conducted by the labor department i believe and they estimated the penetration of illegal aliens into various workforces. The highest being agriculture. The % of agriculture workers nationwide who were illegal was around 22% if i recall. That means that 78% of the farm workers in this country are still legal citizens. Being here in california and the southwest it appears that the farm workers are mostly hispanic, but that’s also because of our proximity to the border.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:59 pm
#146. AAAAHHHH. Say no more. I’ve got you all figured out now.
(gives you the creeps when someone pigeonholes ya, huh? I feel like that when someone says, “organized religion is for lemmings” or “all religion is cult-like” knowhuttImean)
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:00 am
Axel G, the Russian Orthodox Church is still in communion with every other Orthodox Church. The Russians were a Metropolitanate of the Constantinople Patriarchate until 1448.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:01 am
Oh and to that guy who is pro-amnesty, NO WAY man I know you’re voting for McCain now but sorry, immigration HAS to be legal! I mean obviously the nation has held up short term, but long term the country cannot endure. Don’t make me map it all out for you now, consider it a homework assignment. But it is important.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:02 am
Jonathan #148,
I attended Catholic School after they had enacted the ban on corporal punishment. So they couldn’t hit us, but I new they wanted to
!
Liz #149,
The cool thing is that those women still exist. There are millions of the stonger than titanium Babushkas in the former Soviet Union. And they are still just as strong as they ever were.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:03 am
Who is admin? And how do you know the demographics of Russia? It seemed like my Oma was 1 of a kind. Could there be more…?
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:03 am
#146. AAAAHHHH. Say no more. I’ve got you all figured out now.
(gives you the creeps when someone pigeonholes ya, huh? I feel like that when someone says, “organized religion is for lemmings� or “all religion is cult-like� knowhuttImean)
Just as long as you realize that the last thing anyone could ever do to me is fit me into a nice little box.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:04 am
SdGOp,
I live three states from the border, and except for maybe a couple farmers kids, all the workers are spanish. I might add that most of the workers here are legal. Although, people have been rounded up here and deported before. But, many illegals and legals are afraid of the government and immigration policys. They fear coming to the farms because of the tense immigration situation. Therefore that lack of workers. once again it is complicated.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:04 am
TLG, to me, you will always be special and unique. Back to politics now?
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:05 am
TLG, I’ve seen your profile on facebook. I’d say a 3ft X 5ft Box.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:05 am
Sorry Liz.. Admin is me. I didn’t change it to my name in time.
I didn’t mean to imply that your Oma wasn’t one of a kind though. Each of these woman are absolutely one of a kind. Thats what makes them so awesome.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:06 am
I should ask my Christianity professor to give me Tuesday off. I learned more about Eastern Christianity hear than the whole hour in class
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:06 am
I attended catholic shool and was taught by nuns. They refused to skip me because of my bad conduct. I forgive them because that led to me going to a jesuit boarding school, which was a blast. But after all that indoctrination I have concluded catholicism is heresy.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:06 am
Alex and EGS: The Russian church considered itself the home of the Third Rome, but I don’t think they ever disagreed with the Greeks or other Orthodox groups. It’s one of the reasons the Russians and Greeks were fully behind the Serbians (predominately Orthodox) during the Kosovo crisis. Russian religious affiliation is still a wedge the Russians like to use by pressuring Greece not to join the rest of the EU and NATO in resolving Kosovo and Macedonia.
I’m working from vague, receding memory here, so correct me where I’m off.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:07 am
liz…are you referring to me?
If you are i would like to tell you that I’m voting for Romney. Immigration is not my deciding factor. (the economy is.) If you fully understood the situation on American farms, you would see that we cannot deport millions back to their countries. I’m not for full amnesty, but something needs to be done.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:07 am
Axel G.
Jesuit boarding school! You got me beat!
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:07 am
TLG, to me, you will always be special and unique. Back to politics now?
Awwww. How kind.
We weren’t talking about politics, though.
TLG, I’ve seen your profile on facebook. I’d say a 3ft X 5ft Box.
Ooh, puns! Now you’re wandering into my dorky territory.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:07 am
There are people waiting in line to come into the U.S. for a very long time. As the illegals are forced back because employers are not allowed to hire them any longer, you simply open the spicot wider and allow those in line to come in faster, legally. You may have to hire some more people temporarily to process the paperwork, but it will be worth it. Those that can go back can get in line, and maybe come back someday, but not faster than they could have if they had not come in illegally to begin with. That’s fair to everyone.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:08 am
#159, complicated and WRONG. I married one of those immigrants, he is now completely legal. And beautiful, dientes de nata, ojos de capuli, cabello de seda, BIG big dimples and a sonrisa como el amanacer. Latinos are the best import America has going, but they HAVE TO BE LEGAL or the country’s borders begin to blur and fade, and then they are gone. . . .remember the “rule of law” concept maybe?
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:08 am
154. I knew Metro would find a church he could call home.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:09 am
Kavon, you should compromise with your wife. Go back to the earliest form of monotheism become Zorastrians!
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:10 am
#162 no no, no offense taken. That was an interesting wave of nostalgia though. . . .
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:10 am
Just an observation, but if that one little sign made you turn around and go home because of the strident tone…
… are the comments on this blog of a bunch of conservatives figuratively yelling at each other going to stop you from blogging?
Come on folks. There’s all sorts of this stuff going on out there. This is nothing new, unique or novel.
Slick, liar, satan worshipper, black hater… Sound familiar?
Romney’s been fighting against this stuff for literally years. And you cry about a cardboard sign making a valid point?
Others here are trying to say that Romney didn’t put that sign there. You know what, I doubt he did. He genuinely respects McCain, even though he doesn’t get the same respect back. His “negative advertising” has always been comparisons of McCain’s positions against his own. But, who cares? McCain walks around like his service is his become POTUS free card. Being a prisoner of war doesn’t make one a good president. That’s the point.
At every turn, Romney’s been put into positions requiring him to defend his personal beliefs as well as his public policies.
I say it’s about time somebody else got a piece of that pie!
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:11 am
170…I agree they have to LEGAL. But they can’t be sent back! It won’t work that way.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:11 am
MarkG, yeah the Russians see themselves as the successor to the Patriachate of Constantinople.
However the Russian heirarchy doesn’t even attempt to throw its weight around. All it is symbolic claim to a bit of cache.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:11 am
That’s a very high horse you rode into town on partner…Would have been nice to get off of it long enough to hear what the CANDIDATE actually had to say. It doesn’t matter if that lady was standing 2 feet from Mitt, she is not Mitt and you missed the opportunity to hear him that you supposedly went to have. I know for a fact that McCain has a truck load of wackjobs in my town campaigning for him, yet these men are not McCain and you and the other McCainiacs are not electing them to sit in office.
Professionalism requires the practitioner to view situations from a higher vantage point than those involved in the moment. Unfortunately you were sucked in and wrapped up in the ugliness surrounding the Romney event and denied the professionalism required to make the editorial report you desired. Instead, you have joined the masses and filed a partisan post no different then the unenlightening prose that has come from the likes of Drummond.
Buck up little camper, we’ll beat this primary together!
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:13 am
Well, at the least this primary season shows that Republicans can have exciting contests
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:13 am
Johnathan #172,
That would work well considering that I’m half Iranian (Persian).
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:14 am
I have strong opinions about illegal immigration ant the fact that our government gives them free health care etc., and I would never hold this sign.
However, far worse things have been said about candidates and the people that support them on this blog!!!!!
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:15 am
Romney called McCain’s original plan that granted amnesty to something like 5% of illegals (not the 100% under z-visas) “reasonable”. Let’s not blow that out of proportions. The reason why Tancredo backed Romney is because he actually did something about illegal immigration, before it became a big issue.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:15 am
Jonathan: Was Zoroastrianism actually a monotheism? I thought it taught dualism, i.e., that there was one really big powerful benevolent being and one really nasty powerful malevolent being and that they were perpetually duking it out, and the universe was sort of the byproduct of that. Or something.
Kavon: W