February 2, 2008
Sigh…
As the Founder and Managing Editor of R4′08, I have always made it my goal that no matter who I personally support, I would always strive to provide equal, balanced, and fair coverage to all of the Republican candidates. And although our staff roster has changed throughout our existence, I have always been outnumbered by writers who support candidates other than the one I do- and always by a significant margin.
That has always been OK with me. After all, my mission in founding R4′08 was “ to create a forum for conservatives of different stripes to share their opinions and preferences regarding the race for the 2008 Republican nomination and ultimately the 2008 general election.”
It has also been my solemn vow to follow the Eleventh Commandment to the best of my ability- and in that I feel that I have succeeded as well as any other human being could have. I am very proud that I have never stooped to slandering any candidate that could have ended the race as my Party’s nominee for President. I also pledged to work as hard as I could to help whomever won our Party’s nomination win in November.
So in the spirit of fairness and balance, and wearing my “Editor” hat instead of my “backer of a candidate hat”, I ventured out this evening to attend Gov. Romney’s rally in Edina, MN. After all of the miles I put on my car in the past two years venturing across the Midwest to file Field Reports for the site, how could I possibly justify skipping Gov. Romney’s rally the Saturday before the caucuses in my very own state?
My warm feelings of party unity and non-partisanship were quite-short lived unfortunately, as this is the very first thing that people saw as they entered the event:
Your eyes are not deceiving you… When you walked into the event this evening, it’s phone banks to the right, the stage to your left, and this lady straight ahead.
So we have now reached the point of the complete Coulterization of discourse from Sen. McCain’s opponents. It is no longer a simple matter of disagreement on policy-it’s Treason.
Because Sen. McCain has a different position on Immigration than Gov. Romney’s current one, it is apparently totally within bounds to throw Sen. McCain’s valiant, honorable, and costly service to our nation in the trash and equate him with the greatest traitor in American History.
I no longer recognize my party. This is not my Republican Party-the party of Ronald Reagan and his beloved Eleventh Commandment. We are now no better than the Nutroots of the Left and their scorched Earth, slash and burn tactics-the politics of absolute and utter destruction.
So there is no Field Report folks. I turned my head in shame and went home.
http://race42008.com/2008/02/02/sigh/trackback/
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:47 pm
As for me, I’ll be happy when this is over. This is all getting a bit too unhealthy.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:47 pm
These Romney supporters ought to be ashamed of themselves. Not only are they being disingenuous about their candidate’s concern over the issue, they are selling the GOP down the river by this kind of rhetoric – all in the name of some perceived short term political gain – which isn’t even materializing.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Kavon,
I disagree with McCain…..GREATLY…..but I’m sure I will vote for him if he is our nominee……
And it is too bad…..
About the wasted drive…..
Thanks for eveything….again…..
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:48 pm
And as for the poster this hot mama is holding – that doesn’t even dignify a response.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Not to defend the sign too much, but I think her point is that a war hero doesn’t make one a political hero, not that McCain is a traitor to the nation.
the larger point is, we see a surge of support for Romney coming from all people who hate McCain. It is starting to remind me of NH Democrat race. We saw polls looking good for Obama, real goo, but then we have enough pissed off people showing up on vorting day. In Hillary’s case it was women, in Mitt’s case it could be conservatives.
Either way, you can’t hold this lady too hard, McCain’s people have said plenty of crap about Romney.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:51 pm
I am so sorry you found this when you went to Governor Romney’s rally. I assure you he would not condone such propaganda, but people do have free speech. I am sorry that one person’s bad behavior made you miss the rally. Our party has become very divided and it is sad.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:52 pm
There are supporters like this on every campaign. Look at Ron Paul’s. They verbally attacked Sean Hannity about a month ago.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:52 pm
kavon, i think you are overeacting a little bit. the race is not over. these types of things are being done to romney just the same. its called politics.
its not over until its over. stop complaining about people still not wanting to get around mccain. mccain has been poking his finger in the eyes of many conservatives the past seven years. they have every right to make their voice heard. these people you point out are crazy and we would do better without them, yes, but i can probably find just as many such tactics going around right now against romney.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:53 pm
when its over, this will eventually die down. you are op gunder the assumption that this race is wrapped up. if you haven’t notice romney’s numbers are still going up and both are spending plenty of money still.
its not over. stop telling everybody to stop attacking mccain!
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:53 pm
I soooooooooooo agree with the above posting. Congratulations.
John McCain GO TO HELL.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:54 pm
I hear you, fortunately that woman, though supporting Romney, does not represent him. I wrote on my blog about 5 or 6 months ago that Anne Coulter was the biggest threat to the GOP. She is completely awful and you are right about the Coulterization of our party. What a shame.
However, I don’t think there is any blame on Romney for any of this. I think he would do more to unite the party and bring more pragmatic and less idealistic talk back into the party. Something I think we need.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:54 pm
that said, the vitriol and negative tone the campaigns have reached is really reaching fever pitch. hopefully things will clear up soon.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:54 pm
This is a Numbers USA person.
They’ve been on the warpath against Mccain. They were tracking him everywhere in FL and doing this kind of stuff. They want any and all the publicity they can get (and it looks like Kavon is obliging).
9/11 truthers go to Obama and Clinton rallies and often ask questions at town-hall meetings.
That Kavon is trying to paint Romney poorly because of this fringe group’s action is missing the point completely. Kavon may not recognize his party, but I don’t recognize the once fair-minded and largely objective Kavon anymore.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:55 pm
I’m speechless…
You have followed the bitter race between the republicans and against the democrats all year long and this was too much for you? Yeah, that lady may be a kook, but I’m blown away that after you drove all the way out to that event and this was enough to do you in? If you can’t take one lady holding a sign, how are you going to survive the general elections?
Truly I’m disappointed in you almost as much as I’m disappointed in that lady.
I wonder – if you drove out to a McCain event and found a person holding a sign making fun of Romney’s religion, would you have been so offended? Be careful, your bias is showing.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Kavon,
You have admirably upheld the mission of this site. And while I disagreed with your choice of candidate, have hope. Looking at this woman, you say, “I no longer recognize my party.” But this woman is not your party. She’s just a person. And a slightly eccentric one, by the look of her. The ideals that Republicans hold in common are bigger than the points that divide us, and you’ll see the proof this Fall!
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Kavon,
I don’t understand why you still didn’t stay and listen to Romney. You missed out. Romney is a well-spoken and charismatic individual. I was blown away at how well he spoke when i went to one of his campaign dinners.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Her outfit really clashes. And I’m no fashion guru. I think she could have made a more intelligent sign, but with 300 million people in the country, you’re bound to get some extremes. This may have been spawned by the Kerry/McCain 04 debacle.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:58 pm
So we have now reached the point of the complete Coulterization of discourse from Sen. McCain’s opponents. It is no longer a simple matter of disagreement on policy. It’s Treason.
So, in your first sentence there, you accuse others of “Coulterizing” discourse, and then go on to call someone a traitor for their political thoughts? I’ll let that speak for itself.
I second Jason’s #5, too:
Not to defend the sign too much, but I think her point is that a war hero doesn’t make one a political hero, not that McCain is a traitor to the nation.
It just goes back to what I’ve been saying — being tortured by Vietnamese thugs does not entitle one to the presidency.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Swint,
“However, I don’t think there is any blame on Romney for any of this. I think he would do more to unite the party and bring more pragmatic and less idealistic talk back into the party. Something I think we need.”
That’s not true. Romney was the first person in this contest to go negative. And his rhetoric on immigration is hateful and not helpful to the party. Remember when he kept interrupting McCain “Do they get to stay? Do they get to stay?” in the debate when illegal immigration came up? As if Romney is going to deport 10+ million people. It’s posturing for political purposes. It drives Hispanics away from the party at the same time they are an ever-increasing share of the electorate. Romney (and Coulter and Rush and Ingraham et al) is responsible for doing to the national party the same thing that has happened to the California GOP.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Her outfit really clashes. And I’m no fashion guru. I think she could have made a more intelligent sign, but with 300 million people in the country, you’re bound to get some extremes. This may have been spawned by the Kerry/McCain 04 debacle.
I agree. What an atrocious outfit.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Jeff,
This was the first person that people saw when they walked into the room at Mitt’s event in Edina, MN this evening. She was 3 feet from, and directly in front of, the registration table that was manned by half a dozen Romney staffers.
They allowed her to stand at the entrance and “greet” everyone who walked in the room.
What would you call this other than an endorsement of her message?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Using anecdotal evidence like this to smear an entire campaign is just plain wrong, though, Kavon.
It’s so much easier to bash Romney’s camp than that — hell, they’ve got a sleazy guy as their candidate! Why waste time on measly fringe supporters?
I’m a Paul supporter now. Are you going to lump me in with 9/11 Truthers?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Oh, on my 18 — I misunderstood your thought, Kavon. You were referring to that girl’s thoughts — okay. Might want to clarify that in your OP.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:02 pm
TLG #18,
Please read the post again. Where did I call anyone a traitor?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:02 pm
uh, maybe drive around a bit more – you’ll find a few side-shows at most of the events – regardless of the candidate
- Convicts for Huckabee
- Flippers for Mitt
- Drag queens for Rudy
- Senior Citizens for Fred
It’s funny. Lighten up a bit.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:04 pm
worse things have been said about mitt. just because an isolated citizen is mean spirited doesn’t mean the party is unrecognizable. However, the party and the label conservative are unrecognizable to me right now. Right now, it seems that to be a conservative means that you think the iraq war was a bad idea, you love guns, you dislike gays on a personal level, and you think the bible should dictate public policy. I used to think I’m a conservative, but I think the iraq war was a terrible unnecessary thing, i dont own any guns, i dont have any personal problem with gays, and I think the Bible is best used in churches. so, who knows any more. what do people who agree with ron paul call themselves? libertarians? neo-libertarians? pro-life libertarians?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:04 pm
The CA GOP didn’t loose because of anti illegal immigration rhetoric. That’s just a story the moderate wing of the party likes to tell itself. We lost because of a variety of things happened to the CA GOP during the late 80s and early 90s. The two biggest things were that Reagan granted amnesty (a large number being in CA). Most hispanic voters are democrats (largely becuase of economics) and as such this added to the democrat voter rolls.
The other issue was that a lot of middle to upper middle class whites, that worked for the defense industry, began leaving california along with those jobs. It is the combination of these two things that led to the downfall of the CA GOP, not prop 187.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:05 pm
TLG #22,
See my #21.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Kavon,
I think TLG is reading your line that ends with the sentence “It’s treason.” It can be read a couple different ways. But I think you meant that she was implying McCain was treasonous, not that to hate McCain so much is treasonous. It’s a little vague, I had to think about it twoce.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:06 pm
worse things have been said about mitt. just because an isolated citizen is mean spirited doesn’t mean the party is unrecognizable. However, the party and the label conservative are unrecognizable to me right now. Right now, it seems that to be a conservative means that you think the iraq war was a bad idea, you love guns, you dislike gays on a personal level, and you think the bible should dictate public policy. I used to think I’m a conservative, but I think the iraq war was a terrible unnecessary thing, i dont own any guns, i dont have any personal problem with gays, and I think the Bible is best used in churches. so, who knows any more. what do people who agree with ron paul call themselves? libertarians? neo-libertarians? pro-life libertarians?
If that was all it meant to be a Republican, do you think I’d be in the party? Haha. I still hold out some vestiges of hope that the party will reach back to some sort of semblance of the beliefs that it held in the Goldwater era.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:06 pm
“So in the spirit of fairness and balance, and wearing my “Editor†hat instead of my “backer of a candidate hatâ€, I ventured out this evening to attend Gov. Romney’s rally in Edina, MN.”
Too bad you couldn’t keep that ‘editor’ hat on for more than two steps into the room. I wonder how that thought process went: “This crazy lady’s valid criticism that my candidate leverages his significant suffering for political gain offends me so much i just can’t go on! Get this editor hat off. I’m not hear for fact gathering. I’m not hear to listen to Romney. Some random homeless lady cardboard sign has offended more than life itself. I’m going home.”
Quality journalism.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
#19 Adam,
You can go on Romney’s website to see his “negative adds”. They are contrasting positions and are completely true. He has not been telling complete falsehoods like some other candidates. If any of these candidates go against Hillary Clinton, they won’t know what hit them.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Well, things appear to be skiing downhill quickly. And that reminds me of Romney family outings of old. And the new tactics of anything goes remind me of how Hillary directed the responses to any of Bill’s “bimbo eruptions” — by driving those women into the dirt!
Ah, well. If this works for Mitt, I’ll fall back on Popper (no matter how much his good name has been hijacked by Soros):
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
SD,
I agree with you on the White Flight issue. But how come Hispanics in CA vote for Republicans in far smaller percentages than Hispanics in TX? The tone of the debate plays a big role in it.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
TLG,
I for one like Paul, and actually like his talk on the Gold Standard.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Kavon,
If this was a McCain rally and the sign was against Romney, would you have still gone in? I read your post a second time, and you over reacted quite a bit.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
#23 % #29,
I see your point. I corrected that sentence.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
TLG #22, See my #21.
Romney can’t be responsible for what any of his staffers allow or disallow. They might not have even known if they had the authority to make her stop — do you even know? Did you even inquire about the woman to the staffers before you walked away in disgust? I just think it’s better to try to compile all the evidence that you can about the situation at hand before losing your cool over it.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:08 pm
Just say NO to cult members.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Kavon….You want FREE…I say FREE SPEECH….this is America. If this is all it takes for you to take you ball and go home from the party SHAME ON YOU….you must have already decided any excuse to not attend would be alright..If you’re that thin skinned get out of politics. Anyway what have Americans called Pres Bush…..alot worse and it’s been from all parties. What do you expect when people see the debates and McCain and Huck are ignorant and rude to Ron Paul..Romeny and anyone else that they don’t feel is their equal….All I can Say is SAD
But….GO MITT!!!!!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Tim,
and these are cult members are who?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Adam,
I forget the % in texas, but i think the CA GOP gets around 30-35% of hispanics, while the texas gop gets like 45-50%. I think thats largely a product of bush and his outreach to the hispanics in that state. That’s something the CA GOP doesn’t do very well, reach out to them on other issues.
I don’t think we will alienate hispanics if we approach the issue of illegal immigration carefully, most hispanics oppose illegal immigration as well. 60+ Percent of hispanics voted for Prop 187 in CA and a simalar number for the arizona equivilent a few years back.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Hey the name CT in #40 makes me wonder what ever happened to KT?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Also, about this — I no longer recognize my party. This is not my Republican Party- the party of Ronald Reagan and his beloved Eleventh Commandment. We are now no better than the Nutroots of the Left and their scorched Earth, slash and burn tactics- the politics of absolute and utter destruction.
The “11th Commandment” is an utterly preposterous idea to begin with; we can’t form a coherent agenda if being a good Republican means that we’re NEVER ALLOWED TO UTTER ANY CRITICISM, EVER. Sometimes criticism is quite valid. It keeps people on the right track, sometimes.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Tim, and these are cult members are who?
Mormonzzzz
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Jeffrey #25,
I have attended probably 50 events in this cycle. And yes, I have seen the “Huckabee Convict” and I have even interviewed “Flip the Dolphin“.
I think what people have failed to realize is that she was inside the event, at the front of the room, and 3-4 feet from the registration table.
Normally, these folks are not allowed inside the event. If she was outside on the sidewalk holding this sign, I would have chuckled and went about my business.
The fact that she was allowed inside the event and was in plain view of the folks running the show amounts to an endorsement of her message. Which, once again, is that Sen. McCain’s position on Immigration makes him equivalent to the greatest traitor in American History.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:14 pm
TLG,
I can assure you I’m not in a cult. I’m sure your shocked, but no the Mormon religion is not a cult.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:14 pm
That picture and message are disgusting. The Romney staff should have thrown her ass out of there unless they want people to assume that they and their candidate approve of such ideas
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:15 pm
I can assure you I’m not in a cult. I’m sure your shocked, but no the Mormon religion is not a cult.
It was a joke.
I find all religion cult-like.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Kavon. . . Let me get this straight. . .You drove all the way to see Romney, saw this woman, and then left without actually seeing Romney? You’re kidding right? Or did you actually waste an entire day and this post because of one out-of-the-ordinary woman? Very weak anti-Romney post, Kavon. I expect much better from you and this site. I suppose now we should all ignore your hard work on R4′08 because of the one or two stupid comments made by some other people here. After all, you just explained that the message of one man is less important than that of one of his supporters.
I’ve always been very calm in my post replies, and this might get me kicked off, but this post may be the most assinine thing I’ve seen here in the more than one year I’ve been reading and responding on this site.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:15 pm
I think TLG believes all religions are cultlike. Don’t take it personally
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:15 pm
“I don’t think we will alienate hispanics if we approach the issue of illegal immigration carefully, most hispanics oppose illegal immigration as well.”
Agreed. But that starts with the realization that the millions already here aren’t going to leave. By all means, secure the border – and then we’ll work out a path to citizenship that involved learning English, fines, etc. But when politicians like Romney in a debate yell out “Do you make them leave? Do you make them leave?” as if to catch McCain or anyone else in some kind of gotcha moment for cheap political gain is not helpful. And it’s a good way to drive that 30 or 40 percent that are receptive to the GOP message down to zero.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:16 pm
TLG,
I know it was. So you don’t beleive in diety at all?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:16 pm
51 — See 49.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:16 pm
TLG #38,
Campaigns are responsible for whom they allow in to their events. It was held on private property, anyone, or any message, could be asked to leave an event such as this.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:17 pm
I agree with the others here that it’s part of politics and the passion is for a cause and less about the candidates. Fairness and decorum aren’t figuring in, it’s all about amplifying the cause. While it got little press coverage, except for here in Florida, Operation Rescue was out and proud confronting Giuliani at most of his stops in the closing days. And yes, they brought pictures, huge ones. So when Giuliani visited a city, the people heard via there local news what the protesters had to say and forced people to confront the fact that Giuliani was pro-choice. I don’t think these people, including your woman, are thinking about what’s good for the party or even what’s good for a candidate they may support, it’s all about whatever issue they are passionate about and trying to force others to take notice.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Ooh, Tier, you must not have been here long. I’m the resident Republican that shouldn’t statistically be son; the teenage gay atheist that listens to metal music from a blue state.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Alaska Jake #50,
I find no offense in your opinion, and I am sorry if I have let you down.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Kavon,
I went to a Romney rally at the Romney HQ in Iowa nearly a year ago and the first person I saw when entering was “Flipper the Dolphin” (a special gift from the Brownback campaign).
I guess you can read into this lady whatever you want, but it may have been an episode of “wrong-place/wrong-time” or just an example of free-speech.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:19 pm
oh
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:19 pm
Well, i think they should go home before they re-apply, its an insult to millions of people who did it the right way. My parents are democrats, but they came here the legal way and are fuming mad about the amnesty being proposed.
There’s also the idea that people will leave by default once you start enforcing the laws. In Arizona as employers are punished for hiring illegals many of them are leaving the state and going back. If they can’t be hired legally, most will just go home. This is what happened back in the 50s when Eisenhower did Operation Wetback(yes, that was the actual name). Granted they did deport a couple hundred thousand, but millions more self deported as the feds started cracking down.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:19 pm
TLG,
Yes i saw that but it came up as i was typing my post. Clearly you are a much faster typer than i.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:19 pm
58. . . As a Romney guy, I would have found your recounting of the actual Romney rally much more interesting than your dismissal of this woman. But maybe that’s just me.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:19 pm
This is beyond passion though Emily, this is warped hatred. We Republicans keep talking about Bush Derangment Syndrome, well I think there are some out there with McCain Derangment Syndrome; people who are blinded by an irrational hatred of the Senator. It’s not healthy or helpful to anyone
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Campaigns are responsible for whom they allow in to their events. It was held on private property, anyone, or any message, could be asked to leave an event such as this.
I just think that this is a form of Monday-morning quarterbacking. You clearly did not inquire about the woman to the staffers, so I think that you’re jumping to conclusions about the situation. You weren’t even there for long enough to know how long the woman had been there — or if she was even asked to leave later, or what the status of the situation was.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:20 pm
57 — Son = One. I have no idea why I typed “son” instead of “one” — Haha.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Kavon,
If you had gone to a rudy event, and seen the same thing from a rudy supporter, would you have left without hearing rudy talk?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:21 pm
I’m a strong Romney supporter, and the lady and sign is not appropriate. It probably hurts Mitt a lot more than it hurts him, because people that go there are still trying to make up there minds. Its no only distasteful, and not appropriate, but also not smart. This is a reflection on the lady and those in charge of the event that knew about her.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Politics is never nobler than the culture.
As our culture has degraded we should expect politics to become dishonorable and lose it’s remaining virtue.
This isn’t just the Republican Party or the “Left Nutroots”. This is the America of 2008.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
#66, I thought you were giving him a talking to and saying ” I shouldn’t even be, SON” adding the son for emphasis. so it worked either way
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
When Huck and McCain have passionate supporters show up at their rallies, it’s ok. When Romney has passionate supporters show up, they’re kooks and mormon cultists. I’m beginning to understand how things work.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
SD,
Well I’m probably more liberal on the issue than you. I think the U.S. fostered a win and nod approach to illegal immigration for too long. But the problem does need to be solved and the border needs to be secured. I think that the public at large would be okay with granting citizenship to those here provided that pay back taxes and learn English – as long as the border is demonstrably secured.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Politics is never nobler than the culture. As our culture has degraded we should expect politics to become dishonorable and lose it’s remaining virtue. This isn’t just the Republican Party or the “Left Nutrootsâ€. This is the America of 2008.
Would you people calm down?
I hate it when people jump to conclusions based upon anecdotal evidence. This is one woman out of how many people that were at the rally?
I hate Romney and the Rombots as much as the next sane person, but come on.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
46 …
I think you’re reading more into this than is there to say that this person’s sees McCain as an equal with Benedict Arnold. I don’t see anything that says they see McCain as a traitor for any reason.
It seems to me that all the sign says is that Arnold was a war hero, too. We have had good presidents who have come from the military, but just because one has served this country doesn’t mean that you are entitled to lead it.
Where does this person’s sign say that McCain is a traitor? Oh, wait, you made that part up–probably after you took your editor hat off.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
How do we know this isn’t Kavon in a wig in his mother’s basement?
How do we know she was there to attend the event like everyone else but saw someone with a camera and decided to pose?
In Iran gay men are hanged; in Saudi Arabia women who “allow” themselves to be raped are subject to 50 lashes; in Egypt students are being jailed for blogging; and in Russia investigative reporters are murdered, political parties are harrassed, and Putin confiscates the property of his political appointments. Please excuse me if I don’t lose sleep over a sign.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:23 pm
err…. US fostered a Wink and not approach
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:23 pm
#66, I thought you were giving him a talking to and saying †I shouldn’t even be, SON†adding the son for emphasis. so it worked either way
Shoulda been dat way, yo.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:24 pm
In Iran gay men are hanged; in Saudi Arabia women who “allow†themselves to be raped are subject to 50 lashes; in Egypt students are being jailed for blogging; and in Russia investigative reporters are murdered, political parties are harrassed,
Stop insulting the Religion of Peace!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:25 pm
You hate us TLG? I thought we were facebook buddies.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:25 pm
I think you’re reading more into this than is there to say that this person’s sees McCain as an equal with Benedict Arnold. I don’t see anything that says they see McCain as a traitor for any reason. It seems to me that all the sign says is that Arnold was a war hero, too. We have had good presidents who have come from the military, but just because one has served this country doesn’t mean that you are entitled to lead it. Where does this person’s sign say that McCain is a traitor? Oh, wait, you made that part up–probably after you took your editor hat off.
Technically speaking, no. It doesn’t say that. However, the implication is more than clear, given the context of the situation. She wasn’t there to rationally expose a logical fallacy in the name of truth. She was there to stir up the pot.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:25 pm
TLG: Russia ain’t Muslim they are Eastern Orthodox
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:27 pm
TLG: Russia ain’t Muslim they are Eastern Orthodox
I’m well aware of that; he also mentioned Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Egypt. 75% trumps 25%!
You hate us TLG? I thought we were facebook buddies.
It’s a dispassionate hatred at this point; Romney is finished — as is Rudy, so I can observe this race with my analytical hat more often rather than my I[HEART]RUDY!!!!1 hat — so my hatred for Romney is now half-hearted…you should write on my wall sometime, Bonham! Add some of the political applications I have on mine, too!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:27 pm
Adam(#72),
I think you are right about the citizenship thing. While i think they should go home and re-apply, i’d be somewhat willing to accept citizenship(back of the line/blah/blah/blah) IF i knew this was the last time and they would genuinely secure the border. Problem is i don’t believe the government will secure the border and i highly doubt this will be the last time.
If the government were to prove over a period of years that the borders were secure, employers were being punished when they hired illegals, i’d be somewhat willing to accept it.
Problem is, i don’t trust Mccain to do this. He was leading the fight to stop the enforcement first approach.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:28 pm
Jonathan, I think they are Russian Orthodox.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Russian and Eastern Orthodox are two different churches.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:29 pm
SDgop,
It is tricky with the whole immigration thing. I live in an agricultural area with a large hispanic population. I am not being racist at all, but a majority of the hispanics work on the farms. People don’t understand that farmers are finding labor shortages. (ya imagine that with a unemplyoment percent at 5%.) I can tell you first hand that it won’t work sending millions of immigrants backk. One example: A family friend attempted to get a worker legal. It cost 10,000 dollars to do. Well after a period of time, they checked with the government and they had lost all the documentation that was given several months earlier. So after time and 10k the man got that shaft. The immigration system is a mess.Amnesty seems too easy, but we may need some kind of it.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:29 pm
I always thought Eastern Orthodox and Russian Orthodox were one in the same, but I could be wrong.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Sdgop, that was in response to the first part of 61.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Dick Cheney should be glad no one was at his birthday party to hear him refer to Obama as the black sheep in the family (which is also how Obama refers to Cheney). Hard to believe Cheney is only 67.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Tier,
I agree this amnesty thing is a tricky business. Problem is while the farmers do get cheap workers and that gives us ‘cheaper’ food, we are effectively subdizing that food through other costs(the free healthcare we give them, education,etc.). If we were to replace those workers with normal american ones, the cost of food would go up slightly, but it’d still be cheaper than the overall net cost we pay to have those illegals here.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:31 pm
I thought that they were Eastern Orthodox, too…
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:32 pm
Joe C. #67,
I attended maybe 15 Rudy events, and never saw anything like this INSIDE an event.
You can believe me or not believe me, but I would no longer have supported Rudy, or any other candidate, had this kind of nonsense been going on in their events regularly.
Some people here are just not strict Republicans, and that is fine. However, I am a lifelong Republican and I will always, to the best of my ability, strive to adhere to Ronald Reagan’s 11th Commandment.
And by the way… I do not know if anyone noticed that I haven’t mentioned Mitt here at all. I am sure that he had no knowledge of this and would have told his staffers to get rid of her had he known she was there. I don’t think that anyone should switch their allegiance from Mitt based solely on this.
It’s the fact that we have gotten to the point where this kind of discourse is not only allowed, but that no one even sees what’s wrong with it that makes me sad.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:33 pm
I for one like Paul, and actually like his talk on the Gold Standard.
As a chemist, I can tell you that any monetary standard based on the availability of a substance (gold, platinum, silver, whatever) is a very bad idea going forward. Gold markets are set to change drastically in the coming years, and pinning our currency to it would be a source of instability, not stability. Credit is the way to go.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:33 pm
Pretty positive. The Head of the Russian orthodox church lives in Moscow, I know because I was on boat like 2 days after he was on the Volga river and all the Russians were up in arms. Plus you can buy bottled water that has his special blessing.
But I think they parallel themselves w/r/t doctrine and stuff.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:33 pm
The Glorious Wiki sez: Note: Members of the Eastern Orthodox Church do not usually refer to themselves as “Eastern” Orthodox but rather with a prefix denoting their nation of origin. Thus, within this article, the terms “Greek”, “Russian”, or any other “National” Orthodox; as well as The Church, The Orthodox Church, The Byzantine Church, etc., all refer to a single unified entity, what is today commonly called the Eastern Orthodox Church.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:33 pm
That was no lady, that is Rudy Giuliani in drag.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:34 pm
It’s a man baby
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:34 pm
Thanks TLG: We students bow before the great and wise Wikipedia
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:35 pm
And by the way… I do not know if anyone noticed that I haven’t mentioned Mitt here at all. I am sure that he had no knowledge of this at all and would have told his staffers to get rid of her had he known she was there. I don’t think that anyone should switch their allegiance from Mitt based solely on this. It’s the fact that we have gotten to the point where this kind of discourse is not only allowed, but that no one even sees what’s wrong with it that makes me sad.
You just saw it and walked away. The situation very well may have been what you described, and it’s not honorable. But I’ve got to roll my eyes rather than take up arms with you, because you didn’t even inquire to the staffers about the situation. You’d rather be disgusted with the situation than get to the bottom of it. Fringe elements exist; they always have. The fact that you saw one tonight doesn’t confirm or invalidate anything about the state of the party, especially since it’s just anecdotal evidence, anyway.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:35 pm
Thanks TLG: We students bow before the great and wise Wikipedia
All hail the Glorious Wiki, our Master and Great Leader!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:36 pm
TLG but if you look up Russian Orthodox onwiki it says they have communion but there is no reporting of the two or hierarchal structure between the two. Eastern Ortho has their patrarch and Russian Ortho has theirs.
Stupid point of minutia.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:36 pm
OK… I missed the whole segway into the Russian Orthodox Church.
Being one of the few people here who has actually stepped foot in a Russian Orthodox Church, I may be able to answer some questions on it.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:36 pm
TLG, is the rhetoric in this race worse than in previous primaries?
I’d say yes.
Partly the internet culture is to blame. It gives an outlet where people can freely vent with rhetoric as harsh as they’d like. Meanwhile it frames the discussion in harsh tones.
This example that upsets Kavon is just a reflection of America’s irreverent and disrespectful culture.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:37 pm
The Russian Orthodox Church; or The Moscow Patriarchate (Russian: ??????? ???????????? ???????; or ?????????? ?????????? (the latter designation being another official name[1]) since 1943; ????????? ?????????? ???????????? ??????? before the reinstitution in 1943), also known as the Orthodox Christian Church of Russia, is a body of Christians who constitute an autocephalous Eastern Orthodox Church under the jurisdiction of the Patriarch of Moscow, in communion with the other Eastern Orthodox Churches.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:38 pm
OK and that was a joke. But Kavon seems a little disengenuous here. Spell check the word for me, but Kavon thinks this woman works for Romney’s campaign? Even if she manages Romney’s campaign, Kavon would be better served looking at the issues rather than the slogans and dress code. Not credible Kav.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:38 pm
I feel that TLG is about to Facebook-defriend me as well.
Come on A., we can survive the whole McCain thing can’t we?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:38 pm
Kavon, I’ve stepped foot in tons of them. Spent a month there.
those question marks are cyrillic, apparently wordpress no comprende (no irreverancy implied here)
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:38 pm
104 — Great clarification, but even TLG doesn’t know what “autocephalous” means! Autocephalous isn’t even a word, according to Firefox’s spell check!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:39 pm
I feel that TLG is about to Facebook-defriended me as well. Come on A., we can survive the whole McCain thing can’t we?
u r so off my bl, kavon
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Eastern Orthodoxy is composed of autocephalous national Churches.
That’s why you see Armenian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Serbian Orthodox, etc.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Kavon,
Not to trump you, but show we have something in common.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:40 pm
I might convert to Russian Orthodox. I was raised Catholic, my wife is Orthodox, so I may make the switch for her since it’s so important to her.
Even the priest at the R.O. Church we visited said there’s essentially no difference.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:40 pm
I feel that TLG is about to Facebook-defriended me as well. Come on A., we can survive the whole McCain thing can’t we?
Haha, in all seriousness: of course not. It’s not a personal argument, it’s a political disagreement. Something that people should know about me: I may get into a heated debate about politics, but it’s never personal. I try to look at everything here from a detached perspective. It’s not about us, it’s about the issues.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:40 pm
It’s not so much about issues as personalty. That woman wasn’t even so much pro-Romney as vociferously anti-McCain. The Romney camp should have politely asked her to either put the sign away or given her a pro-Romney sign instead.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:41 pm
EGS,
Enlighten me then, are they related symbolically, or do they actually have a functional relationship, where they all answer to the same hierarchal dude or what?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Jason,
I lived in Russia for a while too! Another crazy thing we have in common!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Kavon,
WHy Russian?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Kavon: The only real difference is between Pope and Patriarch. My family chose Pope ourselves
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Where did you live?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Oh, and TLG is a self-confessed hater. Can’t respect that.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Jason #117,
Because that’s what her religion is.
Why we can’t just go to one of the 170,000,000 Catholic Churches we have in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area is beyond me…
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Campaign rhetoric, negative ads, etc go back to the beginning of American political history. It was much worse, in fact, in the days before these modern times with our fact-checkers and “objective” journalists. Back in the day, it was anything goes – lies, slander, unethical campaigning was the norm. If a candidate’s personal life wasn’t immoral enough, the opposition just created new, more immoral stories about him.
This woman at the Romney rally represented herself and her movement. Was she a bit off-topic? Probably. Was she passionate about one single issue? Most definitely. Was she representative of the campaign and the candidate? Of course not. (You can be sure that had the campaign kicked her out of the rally out that would have really overshadowed the event.) As it is, we won’t know what was said at the rally by the actual candidate because even though this site had a representative at the event, he turned around and left before hearing what the candidate said.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Jonathan,
Yeah… But at least you get to sit down in Catholic Mass.
Those Russians don’t fool around!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Probably my trip to Russia was one of the best months of my life. We spent like 2.5 weeks on a boat on the volga, and all I ate was bread and Dannon Yogurt.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Jason, they all have origins in the Bishop of Constantinople.
When Constantinople fell each Orthodox Church became functionally independent.
They all have the same doctrine and have similar liturgies (in national languages).
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:46 pm
And the showers were 2 inch deep in river scum or something, and you had to carry your own TP every where, because people don’t supply it.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:46 pm
Wow I guess we’re no longer discussing the Romney rally!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:46 pm
EGS,
So they are ran separately but similar in oigin and doctrine?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:47 pm
My Protestant friends think we have an aerboics class. Stand up, kneel, sit down, they get darn near exhausted trying to follow us.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:48 pm
Oh, and TLG is a self-confessed hater. Can’t respect that.
Hater of what?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:49 pm
Jason #128,
That’s how I understand it. There all the same religion, but they each have their own leadership structure.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:49 pm
I’m interested, though I’ll make myself invisible. My Oma was Russian and married a German; a Lutheran Minister no less. Mean woman, but tough as nails. She migrated on foot out of Russia, ended up in South America. Fascinating woman, I’m fascinated about Russia and ANY talk of religion there.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:49 pm
It’s a little closer than that.
The national Patriarchs often will meet and they tend to have close relations even without a functional heirarchy.
Ironically they have a formal heirarchy (the Bishop of Istanbul) they just don’t use that heirarchy anymore.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Damn those Ottoman Turks. If they hadn’t captured Constantinople/Istanbul, there wouidn’t be this confusion
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:50 pm
When’s the knock-down, drag-out fight over three fingers vs. two fingers and a thumb coming?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:50 pm
#Mormonzzz, but probably not limited to just that, eh? ‘Fess up.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Jonathan #129,
Funny, that’s what my Protestant friends say too!
Did you go to Catholic School?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:51 pm
#Mormonzzz, but probably not limited to just that, eh? ‘Fess up.
Already did. See my #49.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:52 pm
I’m currently at a Catholic college and elementary and middle school were Catholic school days as well. No nuns though
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:52 pm
MarkG the filoque clause would be a thornier issue. Liturgies…
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Liz,
I know exactly what your Grandma must have been like! These women are just cut from a different cloth than anyone else on Earth. They are stronger than steel and Lord help you if you make them angry!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Some joke TLG. You make me nervous. I find haters cult-like. ’specially when they get the mob mentality. Be nice now and reassure everyone you don’t mean it.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Jonathan #139,
I am older than you then. I am old enough to have been taught by real-live nuns.
You have to have experienced it yourself to understand what these old-school women where like. They were awesome. True servants.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Although I don’t like what the lady was doing, I certainly think you over reacted by leaving. I was at about 8 Romney events in Iowa, and there certainly was nothing like this. But, having said that, I see worse stuff that that said about Mitt Romney in every thread thoughout the day right here on good ole race42008.com. I think you should have expressed your displeasure at what you saw, then went on and listened to Mitt and shook his hand afterwards and looked into his eyes and come away with the feeling that Mitt Romney is an amazingly good man. Go Mitt!!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:55 pm
#134
Jonathon, Constantinople was sacked by Catholic Christians in 1204. That was when the divided Orthodoxy began.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Some joke TLG. You make me nervous. I find haters cult-like. ’specially when they get the mob mentality. Be nice now and reassure everyone you don’t mean it.
That I don’t mean what? For more clarification, see my 57, and tell me if you think, after reading that, that I’d ever be the kind of person that would get the “mob mentality”!
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:55 pm
90..SDGOP
But i will say one thing. The average normal american does not want the jobs that are on the farms here. We need immigrants, whether legal or not. That is why we need to find a solution to this mess. I don’t want to sound holier than thou, but the average urban american has no clue that sending all the immigrants back to their country will cripple America. They just percieve it as a bunch of people who came over illegal. They don’t understand that as much as they hurt us (healthcare i.e.) we need them as well. Amnesty sounds crazy, but it may be needed.
It is much more complicated than that. I do not want to go into the depth right now, it is time to raid the refrigerator.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:56 pm
My dad was taught by nuns. One time a kid in his 8th grade mouthed off and this little 5 foot nun came up and punched him in the face. Knocked him out cold. Don’t mess with the sisters
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:56 pm
#141 I was going to be invisible, but you KNEW my oma! Stronger than galvanized steel. That is exactly what she was like. And she could make a mean spinach pan-cake (she called it something else and I’m not sure it was spinach truth be told) but boy, would she lose it when we could barely choke it down. Not even 5 feet tall, but she could wield the stick like someone from the medieval ages if we came across as defiant.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:56 pm
I am not quite sure you actually understand the history of the Russian Orthodox Church, which separated itself from Constantinople in the 16th century and established the first patriarch of Moscow. I recall from the biography of Peter the Great by Massie that the Russian Church considers itself “the true faith.” But Russians have always been xenophobic.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:58 pm
148..Jonathon..hilarious.
lol
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:59 pm
Tier,
A point to think about… there was a study conducted by the labor department i believe and they estimated the penetration of illegal aliens into various workforces. The highest being agriculture. The % of agriculture workers nationwide who were illegal was around 22% if i recall. That means that 78% of the farm workers in this country are still legal citizens. Being here in california and the southwest it appears that the farm workers are mostly hispanic, but that’s also because of our proximity to the border.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:59 pm
#146. AAAAHHHH. Say no more. I’ve got you all figured out now.
(gives you the creeps when someone pigeonholes ya, huh? I feel like that when someone says, “organized religion is for lemmings” or “all religion is cult-like” knowhuttImean)
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:00 am
Axel G, the Russian Orthodox Church is still in communion with every other Orthodox Church. The Russians were a Metropolitanate of the Constantinople Patriarchate until 1448.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:01 am
Oh and to that guy who is pro-amnesty, NO WAY man I know you’re voting for McCain now but sorry, immigration HAS to be legal! I mean obviously the nation has held up short term, but long term the country cannot endure. Don’t make me map it all out for you now, consider it a homework assignment. But it is important.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:02 am
Jonathan #148,
I attended Catholic School after they had enacted the ban on corporal punishment. So they couldn’t hit us, but I new they wanted to
!
Liz #149,
The cool thing is that those women still exist. There are millions of the stonger than titanium Babushkas in the former Soviet Union. And they are still just as strong as they ever were.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:03 am
Who is admin? And how do you know the demographics of Russia? It seemed like my Oma was 1 of a kind. Could there be more…?
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:03 am
#146. AAAAHHHH. Say no more. I’ve got you all figured out now.
(gives you the creeps when someone pigeonholes ya, huh? I feel like that when someone says, “organized religion is for lemmings†or “all religion is cult-like†knowhuttImean)
Just as long as you realize that the last thing anyone could ever do to me is fit me into a nice little box.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:04 am
SdGOp,
I live three states from the border, and except for maybe a couple farmers kids, all the workers are spanish. I might add that most of the workers here are legal. Although, people have been rounded up here and deported before. But, many illegals and legals are afraid of the government and immigration policys. They fear coming to the farms because of the tense immigration situation. Therefore that lack of workers. once again it is complicated.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:04 am
TLG, to me, you will always be special and unique. Back to politics now?
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:05 am
TLG, I’ve seen your profile on facebook. I’d say a 3ft X 5ft Box.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:05 am
Sorry Liz.. Admin is me. I didn’t change it to my name in time.
I didn’t mean to imply that your Oma wasn’t one of a kind though. Each of these woman are absolutely one of a kind. Thats what makes them so awesome.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:06 am
I should ask my Christianity professor to give me Tuesday off. I learned more about Eastern Christianity hear than the whole hour in class
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:06 am
I attended catholic shool and was taught by nuns. They refused to skip me because of my bad conduct. I forgive them because that led to me going to a jesuit boarding school, which was a blast. But after all that indoctrination I have concluded catholicism is heresy.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:06 am
Alex and EGS: The Russian church considered itself the home of the Third Rome, but I don’t think they ever disagreed with the Greeks or other Orthodox groups. It’s one of the reasons the Russians and Greeks were fully behind the Serbians (predominately Orthodox) during the Kosovo crisis. Russian religious affiliation is still a wedge the Russians like to use by pressuring Greece not to join the rest of the EU and NATO in resolving Kosovo and Macedonia.
I’m working from vague, receding memory here, so correct me where I’m off.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:07 am
liz…are you referring to me?
If you are i would like to tell you that I’m voting for Romney. Immigration is not my deciding factor. (the economy is.) If you fully understood the situation on American farms, you would see that we cannot deport millions back to their countries. I’m not for full amnesty, but something needs to be done.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:07 am
Axel G.
Jesuit boarding school! You got me beat!
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:07 am
TLG, to me, you will always be special and unique. Back to politics now?
Awwww. How kind.
We weren’t talking about politics, though.
TLG, I’ve seen your profile on facebook. I’d say a 3ft X 5ft Box.
Ooh, puns! Now you’re wandering into my dorky territory.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:07 am
There are people waiting in line to come into the U.S. for a very long time. As the illegals are forced back because employers are not allowed to hire them any longer, you simply open the spicot wider and allow those in line to come in faster, legally. You may have to hire some more people temporarily to process the paperwork, but it will be worth it. Those that can go back can get in line, and maybe come back someday, but not faster than they could have if they had not come in illegally to begin with. That’s fair to everyone.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:08 am
#159, complicated and WRONG. I married one of those immigrants, he is now completely legal. And beautiful, dientes de nata, ojos de capuli, cabello de seda, BIG big dimples and a sonrisa como el amanacer. Latinos are the best import America has going, but they HAVE TO BE LEGAL or the country’s borders begin to blur and fade, and then they are gone. . . .remember the “rule of law” concept maybe?
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:08 am
154. I knew Metro would find a church he could call home.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:09 am
Kavon, you should compromise with your wife. Go back to the earliest form of monotheism become Zorastrians!
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:10 am
#162 no no, no offense taken. That was an interesting wave of nostalgia though. . . .
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:10 am
Just an observation, but if that one little sign made you turn around and go home because of the strident tone…
… are the comments on this blog of a bunch of conservatives figuratively yelling at each other going to stop you from blogging?
Come on folks. There’s all sorts of this stuff going on out there. This is nothing new, unique or novel.
Slick, liar, satan worshipper, black hater… Sound familiar?
Romney’s been fighting against this stuff for literally years. And you cry about a cardboard sign making a valid point?
Others here are trying to say that Romney didn’t put that sign there. You know what, I doubt he did. He genuinely respects McCain, even though he doesn’t get the same respect back. His “negative advertising” has always been comparisons of McCain’s positions against his own. But, who cares? McCain walks around like his service is his become POTUS free card. Being a prisoner of war doesn’t make one a good president. That’s the point.
At every turn, Romney’s been put into positions requiring him to defend his personal beliefs as well as his public policies.
I say it’s about time somebody else got a piece of that pie!
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:11 am
170…I agree they have to LEGAL. But they can’t be sent back! It won’t work that way.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:11 am
MarkG, yeah the Russians see themselves as the successor to the Patriachate of Constantinople.
However the Russian heirarchy doesn’t even attempt to throw its weight around. All it is symbolic claim to a bit of cache.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:11 am
That’s a very high horse you rode into town on partner…Would have been nice to get off of it long enough to hear what the CANDIDATE actually had to say. It doesn’t matter if that lady was standing 2 feet from Mitt, she is not Mitt and you missed the opportunity to hear him that you supposedly went to have. I know for a fact that McCain has a truck load of wackjobs in my town campaigning for him, yet these men are not McCain and you and the other McCainiacs are not electing them to sit in office.
Professionalism requires the practitioner to view situations from a higher vantage point than those involved in the moment. Unfortunately you were sucked in and wrapped up in the ugliness surrounding the Romney event and denied the professionalism required to make the editorial report you desired. Instead, you have joined the masses and filed a partisan post no different then the unenlightening prose that has come from the likes of Drummond.
Buck up little camper, we’ll beat this primary together!
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:13 am
Well, at the least this primary season shows that Republicans can have exciting contests
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:13 am
Johnathan #172,
That would work well considering that I’m half Iranian (Persian).
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:14 am
I have strong opinions about illegal immigration ant the fact that our government gives them free health care etc., and I would never hold this sign.
However, far worse things have been said about candidates and the people that support them on this blog!!!!!
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:15 am
Romney called McCain’s original plan that granted amnesty to something like 5% of illegals (not the 100% under z-visas) “reasonable”. Let’s not blow that out of proportions. The reason why Tancredo backed Romney is because he actually did something about illegal immigration, before it became a big issue.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:15 am
Jonathan: Was Zoroastrianism actually a monotheism? I thought it taught dualism, i.e., that there was one really big powerful benevolent being and one really nasty powerful malevolent being and that they were perpetually duking it out, and the universe was sort of the byproduct of that. Or something.
Kavon: While the thought of standing during the course of the entire Mass is daunting, I still think it would beat kneeling. Perhaps it’s just me, but I always dreaded the part where kneeling was required. I would constantly alternate between resting my rump on the pew and then shifting back to an upright position when that got too uncomfortable, and then everyone was looking at me and I just wanted to sit down and the Communion line was still several dozen people long and…ahhh!
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:15 am
#179, Damn didn’t see that one coming. When you say Zorastrianism to half the country people think you are talking about an anti-itch cream
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:16 am
Adam,
Just for the record, Romney was NOT the first to go negative, in fact, has yet to do so. YUCKABEE was the first to go negative with his “Jesus and Lucifer” meme….there can be no dispute of that.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:17 am
Zoroastrians… Hmmm yeah we need towers of silence.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:18 am
#185 If your referring to the Tower of Babel, that was the Babylonians
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:19 am
Jonathan #183,
Yep… Hence the weird name I’ve been saddled with. Kavon Nikrad is indeed my real name which literally translated means “Saturn Goodman”.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:20 am
170…I agree they have to LEGAL. But they can’t be sent back! It won’t work that way.
I love it how all these economic geniuses propose to remove 10 million workers from one sector of the workforce and have few ill effects. Also, the proposed “attrition by enforcement” policies will only work to remove those illegals WHO ARE WILLING TO FOLLOW OUR LAWS. We’ll scare off those who are working to make a relatively honest living, while pushing the dishonest ones underground or into crime. Duh! We have a pretty large number of fairly enterprising illegal immigrants here, who have taken the chance to come here and work for a better life. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WE WANT! I don’t get why this is so hard to understand.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:21 am
Count your blessings EGS! You could have been Manuchuer, Kavon, Kaveh, Bahram, etc.. and had to explain to everyone you’ve ever met what the story of your name is.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:21 am
You didn’t eat your children I hope Saturn?
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:21 am
Nope Jonathon. The Zoroastrians (as least the Indian ones) leave their dead in Towers of Silence to be eaten by vultures and weathered by the elements.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:22 am
Jonathan,
Well, we are still childless… So we’ll have to see
Goodness gracious though! They ate their children!
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:22 am
What you amnesty folks think this country will have trouble finding workers willing to come in legally? Good grief. And the illegals will likely deport themselves if the welfare checks and employment, educational opportunities and free medical care dries up.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:22 am
Kavon,
Believe it or not my first roommate in boarding school was Persian, Saeed Motamedi. Looking back, I never saw him pray.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:22 am
Yeah, having an American name is convenient. I’d mention that neither one of us looks particularly ‘foreign’.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:23 am
Yup, Romney the mudd throwing flip flop trying to trick his way into office and liberal McCain trying to paint a War Hero Grin to portrait his way into office. What is left? The only candidate that has spoke from the heart, the authentic Governor of 10.5 eyars expereince, who has the most conservative record of any candidate, up next to Duncan Hunter, MIke Huckabee. As to the Party being in shambles, the Washington GOP did it by trying to tell we the people who we will vote for rather then letting us choose for ourselves. Their shame has no bounds. Let’s hope their repence is as grand as their blunder. Get on board folks, The Huckabee Express is coming to town. For those of you that fear for a Truth bnarer to come to town, pack your bags, it is truth that will set this Nation free from. Governor Huckabee’s character will do much to heal our Nation from the destructuon caused by Dr. Spock, by secular humanists, bringing a high standard of morals back that will eleviate a lot of stress between factions in this world.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:23 am
I almost dated a Persian back in High School. Lots of them must have found their way here during the disapora after 1979
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:24 am
EGS #195,
Yeah. I’d venture to say that both of us look as Iranian/Persian as an apple pie.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:24 am
Jonathan’s referring to the Saturn of Roman mythology (Cronus to the Greeks) who swallowed his children whole so that they wouldn’t usurp him. Naturally, his plot was foiled, and his children went about usurping him (I guess he was right to eat them) and became the pantheon of Greco-Roman myth.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:24 am
#166, well why didn’t you say so? You seem so much more pleasant now. “Something” has to be done seems a bit vague, doesn’t it? Let’s start with a principle – follow the rule of law. If the law is inconsistent, WHICH IT IS, it has to be jived. Romney would have no problem ironing this out. He is an intellectual whiz who loves a multi-jurisdictional cross federal/local 3-dimensional chess game-like puzzle of such magnitude.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:25 am
Jonathan #197,
Dave has the scoop on dating Persian women. I never dated a Persian girl myself.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:25 am
EGS 176:
Well, the Russian hierarchy has always had to operate from under the heavy thumb of the Kremlin. There has always been that continuity in the Russian polity to this day. They always assert their authority internationally when it suits the Kremlin’s needs.
The Holy Sea looks like a paragon of modernity and democracy in comparison.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:26 am
#197 since we’re all relating ethnically here, my first boyfriend was a Persian. Back in Michigan. He is now some city council-person or some such back there. I wonder who he is voting for? He was a Republican. Didn’t like Mormons. Probably voting McCain. Yikes.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:26 am
Dave #199,
Shows how much I remembered from my Mythology class in college!
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:26 am
MarkG: If you think our primaries are intersting, try deciphering a papal election, that has more intrigue than a spy novel
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:27 am
LOL. I do indeed.
She was half Persian and half Arab. Quite the tempest.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:28 am
Dontcha love how I tie it back in to politics. . .this conversation is like a beautiful woven Persian tapestry. . .
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:28 am
DaveG,
To take the myth a step further, it had been prophesied that a child of Saturn would dethrone him, which is why he consumed them. But Zeus’ mother hid him from his father and, sure enough, Zeus took power. A similar prophesy then kept Zeus from bedding a certain nymph who was to bear a son who would overthrow his father.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:29 am
Good to see I wasn’t the only one not asleep when we discussed mythology back in High School
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:29 am
Holy Sh*t! I wonder how those family gatherings worked out!
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:30 am
liz…200….Yes “something” is vague. Sorry. I agree Romney can find a way to iron this out, but he can’t send back ALL of the illegals here in America. It would cripple a very important workforce. Farming is already filling the effects of the immigration debate. I can’t imagine what will happen here if everyone is sent back.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:31 am
So was Zeus ever overthrown?
Pretty soon we’ll be discussing ancient Hellenistic mystery religions
Mithras, anyone?
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:32 am
#210: They probably didn’t start conversations with “So how about this Iraq-Iran war thing?”
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:32 am
I don’t think we will have to float the bill or stress for deportation if the “magnets” for illegals dry up. The opportunity for work, welfare checks, bennies like that. They’ll go to Canada, or somewhere that doesn’t have a handle on the problem yet. Whaddya think about that? Supply and demand economics. See, I’m no McCain when it comes to economic theory.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:32 am
You know why R4′08 rocks so much? Look at the level of discourse on your average comment thread here.
No Britany talk to be found anywhere!
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:33 am
“Holy Sh*t! I wonder how those family gatherings worked out!”
LOL. Your guess is as good as mine. She’d never let me meet her family (her mother ran into us briefly). I take it there would be a natural tension within the family?
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:33 am
Half Persian, half Arab…
I have a niece (Meena) that’s half Arab and half Persian. She’s going to be trouble.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:34 am
Brittany just endorsed McCain.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:34 am
No, Zeus was not overthrown because he heeded the prophesy. His wife and kids did once try to gang up on him, but he beat them back.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:35 am
If any of you have read this far (I doubt it, but here goes anyway), I briefly talked with this woman afterwards, and she has nothing to do with the Romney Campaign, and isn’t really a Romney supporter. Just smart enough to read the newspaper and saw that Romney was coming to town.
I sighed when I saw it too. What can you do, though, this is America, land of the free speech.
I am surprised that you simply didn’t walk right by (like the rest of us). Too bad, you missed a great rally.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:36 am
#219 What a jerk. He probably hated the girl and boy friends they brought home or wouldn’t give them extra allowance to go to the movies.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:36 am
Dave #216,
You betcha. Arabs and Persians don’t exactly hold one another in high esteem.
I did go out with an Afghani girl a few times. Her family loved me as I was the only guy that was even remotely related to them ethnically that she ever went out with.
Of course, she was the rebel of the family, so as soon as she found out her family liked me she didn’t want to go out with me anymore.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:36 am
Seriously, if she were even sober enough to know it is election year she would endorse Huckabee to get her “get out of jail free” card.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:38 am
OK Kavon, you owe everyone an apology for being so emotional and hasty in your assessment of the situation. (see #220) However, you were so sweet about my Oma I won’t insist. Consider it forgotten and be sure to post pro-Romney stuff at a 3 to 1 ratio tomorrow as your penance.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:41 am
Just to be sure liz, do we McCainiacs have to say five Hail Mary’s and an Our Father just to be sure?
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:42 am
“Just to be sure liz, do we McCainiacs have to say five Hail Mary’s and an Our Father just to be sure?”
Don’t forget the Glory Be! Everyone always forgets the Glory Be.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:42 am
Hail Mary’s, how does that help Romney? How ’bout no caffeine or cussing for a week – and don’t even think about pre-marital anything – DEAL.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:43 am
Jonathan:
That’s part of what fed into my childhood doubts about religious beliefs in general. A bunch of gods squabbling or even your odd snake-eating eagle or huitzilopotchtli-type hummingbird war-god seemed only slightly farther removed from my experience than water-parting, aquapedestrian, loquacious-shrubbery-type deities with angels floating around dispensing unsolicited advice.
Come to think of it, the only miracle I can see is that I’m not a devout atheist, for all the heresy I subscribe to…
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:44 am
#226: Fine 10 Glory Be’s
#227: I promise to be penatant and sin no more if Romney is our nominee. Amen
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:46 am
Kevon,
I’m guessing you missed the rally with the Ron Paul supporters too. Romney pointed him out, and chided the audience when they booed him. Like it or not, people are able to say whatever they want in this country, even on the eve of a primary, and even if it’s true or not.
Enough with the “first to go negative” thing already. Pointing out another candidate’s record and positions is called campaigning. Ad hominem attacks on character are not. Romney couldn’t throw mud at McCain even if he wanted to. A pig wallowing in the mire of his sty doesn’t leave many targets for freshly slung mud.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:47 am
MarkG, how about the myth that one day there would be a little silver oval that would allow you to communicate all the way across the world at the touch of a button – no wait – even rumors that consuming microscopic penicillin bugs could cure infections that used to be lethal! Inconthievable. Atheism usually only means you think you yourself are god. That’s been my experience.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:48 am
Jonathan – no honest – were you for Romney before this? Or did I win a convert? WAHOO I may have just tipped the scales for Romney!!!
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:48 am
Is questioning McCain’s age “negative?” I think its a legitimate issue.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:49 am
MarkG, heresy?
Is immolation worthy?
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:49 am
#230: Gasp you speak of evil magic. Burn the Witch Burn the Witch
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:49 am
If McCain didn’t act so dang demented it wouldn’t be a legit issue.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:50 am
Wow, #220 talked with the woman. Now that’s a field report. Do a little fact checking next time, Kevon, before you jump to conclusions. There are too many others that are similarly jumping to (wrong) conclusions, as far as I’m concerned.
Think for yourselves, people, do your own research, make your own decisions.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:50 am
Sorry #231 should be burnt and my penitant caveat is only IF Romney is the nominee
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:50 am
Liz #231: That doesn’t hold a candle to water-walking, lake-splitting, brush-blabbing stuff in the formal dogmatic books.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:51 am
Jonathon we don’t burn the witch. We should have justice.
We throw the accused in the river. If she survives we burn her. If she dies we bury her in the cemetery and say we’re really sorry.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:52 am
Unbiased you may get his attention if you spell his name right. Kavon not Kevon
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:52 am
#238 & #239 respectively, backtracker! A deal is a deal, you are now pro-Romney! And water-walking was done before people even descended from Apes (see I’m speaking your language) haven’t you ever seen the Jesus lizard?
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:54 am
#240 now here’s a story for you Kavon! McCain supporters taunting a Romney supporter! And I bet they’re wearing gaudy dresses and tons of lipstick too! I am turning away in shame.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:54 am
#242, Sorry already cast my vote for Rudy. No penance for me then. Brand a giant M on my head and be done with it.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:56 am
For Rudy, eh? Well then you’re still up for grabs. You can still donate, endorse, or sign up for the call from home program. Let me know, I’ll set you up.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:57 am
Sorry, I followed my fearless leader to the dark side. Now if Romney promises Hizzoner the Vice Presidency then we’ll talk
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:58 am
EGS #234: Immolation may be unavoidable by some definitions. I have yet found myself capable of forcing any beliefs by willpower on myself even for reasons of celestial expediency. But hey, I don’t generally try to force people away from their religious faith either.
If I have a particular personally held belief, in the sense of a deep faith and conviction, it is (tautologically) that we all believe what we feel we need to believe, whether we’re capable of admitting or realizing the latter caveat or not at any given moment.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:59 am
Dyathink Rudy could stand up to the transparency standard Romney brings to the White House? Hmmmmm…..
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:00 am
And as a follow up. I’m ashamed to admit it but this Rudyite in the past (last March) wrote a $50 check to W. Mitt Romney of MA. Oh the shame!
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:00 am
(what the heck is MarkG talking about, lemme get my dictionary)
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:02 am
Jonathan, you are LYING. Did you now? Well I had no idea you had that kind of decency in you, this blog attracts the highest caliber people! I am so impressed with that. And that you would admit it. You know, you could be accused of sympathizing with true conservatives. Or worse, MORMONZZZZ.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:02 am
Liz, Is there any evidence Romney has been vetted? Appearances are often deceiving, particularly ones that are too perfect.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:02 am
Axel, intrigueing lead in. Tell me more.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:03 am
MarkG, I certainly appreciate your species of disbelief. It’s rather humble.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:04 am
Personally Kavon, this is, ironically enough, one of the best threads we have ever had on this blog.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:05 am
Liz I have no info. I am just natural skeptical. Also that whole thing about a camel passing through the eye of a needle.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:06 am
Johathan 245:
Fear not! The penitence of a Romney presidency remains quite slender.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:06 am
So you have an aversion to rich people?
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:07 am
#256, that I have an explanation for. The “Eye of a Needle” was a reference to the only gate in Jerusalem that was open at night. It was very difficult but possible to get a camel through the gate and so it was called “The Eye of a Needle”
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:08 am
MarkG for being a smart aleck you must memorize all the 13 articles of faith and the Proclamation on the Family. Dang it, now I’m tipping my hand.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:09 am
#258 Not at all being one myself. But I have an appreciation for what it takes.
#259 Hmmm, I had never heard that before.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:09 am
Oh, referencing #258 I thought he was talking about the analogy of the thing. Was he? Axel were you?
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:12 am
#261 HA HA you kill me! Now that’s modesty for ya. Congradulations to you, rich man! I consider most Americans wealthy. Looking at the world as a whole. Maybe you’re being generous like that too when you classify yourself. People on welfare own computers too, you know.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:12 am
Yup – Easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:13 am
Yabut don’t give up so easily, Axel. If you forsake it all and give it to the poor and go follow the master, you may still have a shot.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:14 am
I mean “Master”. Excuse me.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:16 am
#263 I agree that Americans are wealthy in relation to many parts of the world. But there are many Americans, mostly children, who lack proper housing and who go to bed hungry.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:18 am
I’d not mind having a bit more money (hence grad school).
I don’t mind rich people as long as they have the right attitude.
Some rich people are sort of like the skinny people who were formerly fat. This skinny folks hate fat people because they lost the weight and think everyone should be able to do it NOW.
Sometimes I get the attitude from the wealthy that a lack of wealth is some because of sort of moral deficiency.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:20 am
Interestingly enough, I thought of that about seven years ago. I used to go around and just give people money. I would also go buy food, cook it myself, and serve it to homeless people in the parks. I had decided to give away everything and start over since I was sure I could. But as fate would have it a minor tragedy struck and I needed the money for something else. Perhaps that was a test to see if I would still give it away and it that case I flunked.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:20 am
[...] really get tired of statements like this. Because Sen. McCain has a different position on Immigration than Gov. Romney’s current one, it [...]
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:20 am
#267 I suspect your true identity is John Edwards.
Seriously, even 1 hungry child is too many. But America leads the way, and the leader of the free world has to be competent. Especially when it comes to economics, or there will be lots more hungry folks. Need I continue or do you know where this is going?
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:21 am
#269 so you are God-fearing. Good for you.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:24 am
Actually the hunger thing can lead back into the immigration debate. I think the problem isn’t so much the US but the fact that Mexico needs help to create a robust economy. If the Central American countries have a good economy, the incentive to cross the border into the US is gone. We should help President Calderon fight the narcopoliticas and continue encouraging more trade with Mexico.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:29 am
BINGO Jonathan. Bingo on that. Mexico, and down through South America at that, has so much in terms of God-given awesome resources, those countries should be rich, rich, RICH. If they didn’t have corrupt leadership as the rule rather than the exception, the immigration problem would be 100% reversed. They have the climate, beautiful untouched coastline, fertile land for agriculture, petroleum reserves, seafood, fabulous food and culture. As is, lots of Americans retire there. Take away the corruption and resulting risks, I’d be hauling my family down that way.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:30 am
Not to mention the sweet-natured people. Latin guys talk about how your eyes are like start, lips like rubies. . . American guys want to know how much debt you have and what’s your bloodline. How romantic is THAT???
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:33 am
Stars, digo, not “start”. My point being, the people culturally are laid back, personable, not so driven by clocks and money. I find it very humanizing. I think their time will come. But it doesn’t relieve America of it’s responsibility in leading by example. Rule of law. That’s the right approach to the immigration problem. Make the laws uniform, easy to understand, and fair. Immigration will continue legally, and both countries will benefit.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:34 am
And that would be ROMNEY in answer to your next question of who’s capable of getting it done, and with that, good night.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:37 am
The most dissapointing cases in all of S. America are Bolivia and Paraguay. Bolivia has no ports and something like 100 presidents and they are younger than the U.S. Paraguay was led by 3 megalomanical dictators who lost half of its land and almost the entire male population in a war against Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay.
February 3rd, 2008 at 2:12 am
Kavon,
I’m sorry you were offended by the woman there. I’m close to a few of the Romney people and spent most of my time at the rally only a few feet away from the woman in the picture. Had I known what you looked like, I certainly would have gone up and said hello and gave my thanks for running a great website.
With that all said, I also spoke with that woman for quite some time. She was originally a Tancredo supporter (naturally) and pretty much supports Mitt now by default since he’s the only thing stopping McCain from the nomination. She also told me that she tried to enter the room that Romney would be speaking in and was prevented by the Romney staff. They compromised and allowed her to stand outside of the immediate room and away from the media. That’s the spot she chose, and she did place herself where a lot of people would stand. I can also attest to a previous statement at the beginning of this discussion where a reader said that the point was not to say that John McCain was a traitor, but was actually saying that hiding behind being a “war hero” doesn’t give you a free pass on the issues. Although the sign was in really poor taste, in my opinion, and certainly led itself to be misinterpreted. She may have intended that or not, but I got the feeling that the Romney camp was fairly uncomfortable with it but didn’t want to take the step of actually throwing her out. Again, sorry for the wasted drive though.
February 3rd, 2008 at 2:42 am
Just read this. I wholeheartedly agree that those in charge of the campaign event should have politely but firmly asked her to put away her sign, as it was a distraction from the purpose of the event.
However, if you’re going to be offended by this little performance but someone “on behalf of” Romney’s campaign, we could have quite the discussion about what rival camps are throwing at Romney – especially the robocalling and emailing nonsense that is going on. LOTS of nonsense is going on at this stage, some by desperate supporters and some by the campaigns – the principals can either go forward and campaign, or spend all of their time putting out brush fires like this. I don’t think it’s very funny when McCain’s campaign robocalls Romney supporters 10-20 times a day to piss them off and make them so mad they won’t vote for Romney. This is being reported everywhere. I don’t think it’s very funny when Romney campaign volunteers make phone calls and get screamed at over the phone by Huckabee supporters about Romney being an 8&&)*()*(!! Mormon and a devil worshiper and the like.
And, in fact, I don’t think it’s very funny when John S. McCain, who I have respected for a long time, lies openly about Romney’s record and then brazenly defends the lie on national television when he’s called on it. After the NY Times, Newsweek, the Washington Post, Bill Bennett, Jeff Toobin, Joe Scarborough and a host of other journalists and pundits have openly called it a lie.
Unfortunately, Kavon, some of us are idealists. That’s why politics becomes such a constant disappointment at this stage of the game. And why some of us are engaged by it but constantly find that our sources of meaning in life are much more centered in faith, family, service, work, or other avenues outside of politics.
February 3rd, 2008 at 6:21 am
[...] race42008.com » Sigh… Pro-Romney moonbat compares McCain to Benedict Arnold? Niiiiice. (tags: politics election 2008 moonbats romney mccain wtf conservatives) [...]
February 3rd, 2008 at 6:26 am
I think there were more tasteful ways this woman could have made her point, but I do think, as Jason and TLG said toward the beginning of the comment section, that it was a legitimate point–being a former POW makes one as qualified for the Presidency as being a Southern Baptist minister.
For me, the real test is how well the candidate understands and respects the Constitution that they’re running to preserve, protect, and defend.
On that basis, McCain gets an F. Minus. Minus. Minus.
And because of that, I cannot in good conscience cast my vote for him in November. Call me Coulterized, but my alliegance is first and foremost to the Republic, and second to the Republican Party.
This country is already technically bankrupt–financially, we are running on fumes. By 2040, our entire federal budget will be solely consumed Social Security and Medicare alone. We will not even have enough money to pay the interest on our debt. There is a huge fiscal crisis coming down the road, and it’s caused by massive and irresponsible unconstitutional spending, both domestic and foreign.
The National Taxpayers Union came out with a report this week that did the math on all the spending proposed by each presidential candidate. Only two candidates, Rudy Giuliani and Ron Paul, would lower government spending, by $1.4 billion and $150.1 billion, respectively. This report was done after Fred dropped out of the race, but my hunch is he would have lowered spending too — which goes along with my sentiment that other than Paul, only Giuliani and Fred would have had a shot at convincing me to vote for them in November. Every other candidate will increase government spending, including John McCain.
If we do not decrease spending massively, there will be no way to avert the coming financial crisis–choosing between Clinton/Obama and McCain will be like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. If it comes to that, I will vote my conscience by writing in Ron Paul, or voting Constitution Party (or maybe Libertarian, depending on where the L candidate stands on the life and immigration issues). But I will not let my name go down as having ever voted for someone who showed such immense careless disregard for the Constitution.
February 3rd, 2008 at 7:15 am
You think conservatives are hoppin’ mad over McCain’s pending nomination, we libertarian Republicans are furious.
Take the disdain for McCain lightly if you care. But you’re about to lose a great many libertarian Republican voters to the Libertarian Party in ‘08. At least with a Fiscal Conservative like Romney, whose got some libertarian appeal, we could keep Libertarian voters in the GOP tent. With McCain, it’s bye bye GOP.
That woman holding the sign on immigration is just the start. You’ll be seeing much more of this sort of thing, though, on other issues like Taxes, where McCain is a worse Squish.
February 3rd, 2008 at 7:17 am
The Ron Paul people have done a lot, lot worse at campaign events. Look at the incident where they were throwing snowballs at Sean Hannity and catcalling him. Look at the incident on the ferry boat at Macinac Island in Michigan, where they were loudly taunting Rudy Giuliani for the 1/2 hour boat ride.
You blame Romney, and Romney’s supporters. Look at Lyndon Larouchie-eque Paul fanatics. Why no big story on them?
February 3rd, 2008 at 8:05 am
Hah. It’s no longer fair game to cast aspersions on someone’s war record? Funny, I seem to remember Republicans thinking it was fair game… oh, about four years ago?
Shoe feels different on the other foot, doesn’t it?
February 3rd, 2008 at 9:26 am
McCain guy here…
Kavon, I think you are overreacting here. Yes, this campaign has entered the endgame stage, and the die-hards are reaching for the nuclear options. But McCain, IMHO, himself did a pretty blatant smear / distortion of Romney on the Surge. And plenty of anti-Mormon bigots have made equally odious, irrational attacks on Romney.
I think it is pretty said if one crazy nutjob can make you change your mind about the whole party… Surely, the party/movement needs folks with a little more spine than that.
February 3rd, 2008 at 11:41 am
Eleventh commandment was dead long ago, and nobody here is immune of being guilty of killing it; nor are the candidates really.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Eric,
The night before the Florida primary, I attended a rally for Rudy Giuliani in Miami. Walking toward the building in which the event was being held, I saw a girl carrying a few large RUDY placards; the kind with posts that stick in the ground. They were placed around the FIU campus to help direct people toward the site of the rally. I asked her where exactly I needed to enter, thinking she’s working with the campaign. She abruptly pointed in the general direction, saying ‘go over there’, and proceeded to hand me a few campaign advertisements…for Ron Paul. I ran right back to her, without saying a word, I grabbed the signs from her, and then asked her if she was looking for trouble. Immedidately after the event, a dozen or so Ron Paul fanatics engaged in their typical disrepectful (and counterproductive) shouting down of Rudy supporters being asked questions by the media. I shared on camera with a reporter the incident that occurred with the sign-stealing Paulite prior to me arriving at the event, and noted that such behavior was just as classless as the Romney supporters in New Hampshire who were shamelessly stealing McCain signs in the snow and replacing them with Romney placards.
February 4th, 2008 at 1:49 am
All of you will have to either vote for him vote for a democrat or abandon your party and not vote at all. As for that lady up there she should have been removed to outside the premises.
February 4th, 2008 at 1:53 am
“Oh” and as for the MDS they wish that Mac was deranged then they might have a chance but that is not the case. those of us who know him know that this election and presidency are his to win or lose and losing is out of the question for all of us because too much is at stake.
February 4th, 2008 at 9:37 am
[...] race42008.com » Blog Archive » Sigh&. [...]
February 4th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Ha !!
BOO HOO … YOU REPUBLICANS EMPOWERED THIS BEHAVIOR WITH YOUR PSYCHOTIC AND
UNAMERICA HUNT FOR THE PRESIDENT DURING THE CLINTON YEAR. YOUR PARTY TREATED HIM
AS A TRAITOR BECAUSE HE WAS FROM ANOTHER PARTY. YOU CONSPIRED TO TARNISH HIS IMAGE
AND SPENT MILLIONS IN FAILED SEARCHES AND CASES. YOU CONTINUE TO SMEAR A MAN WHO
SAVED THE NATIONS ECONOMY AND ALLOWED A GENERATION (GEN X) TO LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM
REAGAN AND BUSH 1 ALMOST STOLE FROM THEM BY THE DESTRUCTIVE TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS
THAT DID NOT WORK IN THE 80′S OR IN THIS DECADE WITH BUSH 2.
ALLOWING THE RICH TO BECOME RICHER DOES NOT BENEFIT THE MIDDLE CLASS OR THE POOR.
THE GREED OF THE REPUBLICANS IS FAR TOO MUCH – THEY DONT INVEST – THEY KEEP MONEY
OFFSHORE – DONT PAY TAXES – AND SELL OUT THE COUNTRIES ASSETS FOR PROFIT TO KINGDOMS
AND COMMUNISTS WITHOUT BLINKING AN EYE.
NOW YOU COMPLAIN WHEN THE SAME SLEAZE IS TURNING ON THE MODERATES IN YOUR PARTY THE
SAME WAY THEY ATTACK LIBERAL CITIZENS. BOO HOO HOO.
YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW.
February 4th, 2008 at 9:51 am
i am a self-described liberal, so of course i hope Obama 1)gets the nomination, and 2)beats McCain or Romney.
but that picture just makes me sad. regardless of how i feel about McCain as a candidate/politician, the guy went to war and fought for his country, and deserves more respect than to be compared to a traitor. he’s got more guts than i’ll ever have.
sickening.
February 4th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Um, this surprises you? Where were you in 2003? Oh, I forgot, you were holding the sign in 2003.
THE reason why I will NEVER ever vote for a Republican is because when I questioned the Dear Leader’s invasion of Iraq and was called a traitor by Republican leadership, no Republican had the guts to say, “I disagree with him, but I defend his right to speak his mind.”
You reap what you sow. You encourage this mindset, this mindset is what you will get. I hope the GOP splinters and dies. Nobody will miss it at this point.
February 4th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Oh good lord 294. WHat member of the Republican leadership called you a traitor? Get a grip.
February 4th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Well frankly I hope the current ‘Coulter’ faction of the Republican Party dies even if it takes the rest of the Party with it.
This campaign has convinced me that the Party is rotten and bankrupt from the inside, and cannot be saved. For years you have survived because the Democrats are ‘worse’ and been sustained by a maniacal hatred of anything Clinton. Now that the Clintons are passing from the stage so will the Republicans as they are currently constituted. You have no reason to exist.
When the image of the Party is less Reagan than Coulter and Limbaugh —- Houston ,we do indeed have a problem.
This one loon is merely a symptom of the problem. She is, however, not the problem. Her mean spirited simplicity is just reflective of the Party illness.
Bye bye folks. Have a nice trip. You think you will magically be coming back in 2012 because of demand from a grateful Nation. Golly will you be disappointed. Who would have thought that Paul’s loons were actually a preview of the wider Party future and outlook ?
Amazing.
February 4th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Let me get this straight: Republicans have spent almost 40 years sliming war heroes from George McGovern to John Kerry as traitors and cowards -even lying about their war records. But when a Republican gets a taste of it, life has lost all meaning. You self-pitying right-wing drama queens are pathetic.
February 4th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Because Sen. McCain has a different position on Immigration than Gov. Romney’s current one,
Nicely phrased, though you’re skating on the thin edge of the 11th Commandment
February 4th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
[...] has been some really shameful demagoguery against McCain from people who ordinarily would show some respect for a man who spent 6 years in a [...]
February 4th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Given the nasty, negative approach Romney’s campaign took from day one, I’m not surprised by any of this.
What truly depresses me is that so many of his supporters are also quick to discount John MCain’s
military service. Aren’t we the party of “Support the Troops?” Judging from the some of our peers
have trashed the military veterans like Max Cleland, John Kerry and now John McCain, it’s no wonder
more and more military personnel and their families are voting Democrat. I was considering Romney,
but considering some of the nastiness of people posting here and elsewhere against him, I’m going to
respect my own family’s tradition of military service and vote for McCain and if Romney’s loss means
some of his mean-spirited disciples leve the GOP in protest, all the better. It’s disgusting what you morons
have done to my party!
February 4th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
[...] Link to picture source. [...]
February 4th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Chelsea Clinton is may be a classless bitch, but holy jeebis, this is possibly the ugliest (wo)man I’ve ever seen. It makes me think that whoever hit her with a shovel should have finished the job. As for immegration [insert racial slurs here, check http://www.rsdb.com. So I think what I’m saying is, while farmers used to buy us, today farmers sell corn for ethanol, and that’s just wrong.
February 4th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
I fully believe that it should be legal to tazer or paintball anybody holding a cardboard sign no matter where or who they are. Bums on street corners, that fat guy waving the mattress warehouse sign, and even large marge pictured above.
Seriously, who wouldn’t want to tazer this woman? Imagine seeing all those fat rolls twitching, screaming, and convulsing on the ground without even having to buy her a drink.
February 4th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
oh, and by the way, check out http://marvin.hb0da.org/~beavis/archive/files/nintendo.jpg for an example of holding something while being hot. and that reminds me, when I run for president, I’m running on the NO FAT CHCIKS ALLOWED platform. and while I may be a blob of blobulous proportions, NO FAT CHICKS ALLOWED is something even fatty mcfatinstein can get behind. if you know what I mean. and I think you do. NFCA2012.
February 4th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
And another thing. Ann Coulter is crazy hot. I’m kind of an adam’s apple man myself, but seriously, that’s one whowho I could enjoy jamming my unlubricated chacha into with some measure of frequency. and by that I mean a lot and often and probably fast. sure, we don’t agree on all political fronts, but I like her dad, that ragin’ cajun guy. james carville? damn, that would make for some hot hot hot three way action. toss in bill frist and a salad or two…. well anyway, I’m going to go soil a sock so we’ll check back later.
February 4th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
ok I’m back. I really wish they sold socks in singles so I could just carry a spare with me when I need a little alone time. did I mention that my parents were emmigrants? they moved two towns over when I was a kid. really crapped on my social life, but otherwise, mildly entertaining. there’s just something really rewarding about knowing you’ll never see a bunch of people again: affords you the opportunity to just dump anything you want anywhere and everywhere. I think that’s probably why mexico sucks so much. and not in the hot tiajuana way. in the “wow this place really sucks” way. I mean, seriously, have you been there? I’d be running jumping and swimming my furry ass out of there with a rapdity unbeknowst to even the elitest of olympic athelets. and I take steriods. mostly the feminin kind because I like the breast growth, but still, it’s a form of performance enhanhancement…. and also hot. hm. well I do have another sock…. ok, back in a few.
February 5th, 2008 at 5:22 am
Kavon,
I totally agree with you. I am embarrassed by how Kos-like that the right side of the blogosphere has become in this election — full of screaming, petulant children. I used to think we were above that. Grow up, people!
February 6th, 2008 at 11:45 am
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