August 16, 2008

Saddleback Civil Forum Open Thread

Have at it.

by @ 7:18 pm. Filed under Presidential Debates
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108 Responses to “Saddleback Civil Forum Open Thread”

  1. Brett Passmore Says:

    Obama is flailing on q2

  2. sampo Says:

    this is brutal! hillary job jipped.

  3. Brett Passmore Says:

    im on delay, about 15 min, so i cant wait to get caught up.

    so far obama cant speak.

  4. sampo Says:

    i’d like to lobby websters to get a picture of obama next to the term “empty suit”

  5. Brett Passmore Says:

    his welfare answer sounded downright republican.

  6. DSkinner Says:

    That was bad by Obama implying that being anti-gay marriage means your faith isn’t strong enough.

  7. DSkinner Says:

    Obama is blowing the stem cell research question also. Didn’t they rehearse this?

    He needs to take a firm stand and then justify it. He is hedging way too much so he comes across as indecisive. Every now and again when he is defending “other people” you get a sense of how he really feels.

  8. DSkinner Says:

    Wow! Obama is terrible. How did he not pivot the evil question to terrorists? Warren is serving up softballs and Obama is whiffing.

    He could have taken a tough stand against terrorism and instead he is taking shots at people who believe terrorism is evil by implying that we have other motives or that we are causing more evil than we are defeating.

  9. Illinoisguy Says:

    I’ve told you many times, all the talk about how eloquent his is is just hogwash. This guy can only read a telepromper. In any other forum, he utterly stinks.

  10. Aron Goldman Says:

    Obama Admits Presidency Above His Pay Grade

    Q. At what point does a baby get human right in your view?

    OBAMA: Well, you know, I think that, whether you’re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity, uh, you know, is, is, uh, above my pay grade.

  11. sampo Says:

    ROBERTS HAS BEEN THE DECIDING VOTE ON SEVERAL THINGS THAT OBAMA NOW AGREES WITH! THIS GUY IS AN IDIOT!

  12. Kevin Says:

    I can’t wait till we do a real debate. Obama will get BURNED.

    Uaaahhh…and, and, and, and, and….the-the-the-the….aaaaahhhh….uuuuuhhhhhh….

  13. Brett Passmore Says:

    bring up the born alive vote… hard ball this idiot

  14. DSkinner Says:

    I noticed that to Aron. Hopefully the McCain camp didn’t agree to not use this forum in campaign commercials because “that is above my pay grade” is the exact reason people will decide to vote for McCain and against Obama.

  15. DSkinner Says:

    Obama will not win any votes based on how things are going so far.

    If McCain can come out next hour and nail these questions, I think it will do a lot to solidify his social conservative support.

  16. Lori Says:

    Obama fails on most questions with Warren who does not cheer his answers but just nods and says uh-huh. He really lost on the Clarence Thomas answer.

  17. Thomas Says:

    I think Obama might have just alienated a large portion of his party when he came out as against homosexual marriage.

  18. DSkinner Says:

    There Obama goes stuttering again. He was not very well prepared for this or he is very nervous or both.

  19. Lori Says:

    Is it just me or does Obama’s posturing make him seem to be looking down his nose? Nose in the air is not helping him throw off the charges of elitism.

  20. beck Says:

    What’s with the high fiveing? Next there will be a fist jab.

  21. DaveG Says:

    Here’s the thing. Obama is going to sound reasonable to non-ideological swing voters. Not being a fire-breather is a plus for the middle, remember? Where he trips up is when he instinctively goes into liberal mode. What’s the first thing he thinks of when asked about evil we have to confront? Darfur. He admits he was on the wrong side of welfare reform in the ’90s. What’s America’s greatest moral failing? That it doesn’t redistribute wealth to a greater extent. He gets caught as a liberal when he instinctively answers unrehearsed questions.

    The question is whether Americans will be able to intuit Obama’s leftism despite his ability to sound like a reasonable person, and despite their willingness to vote Democrat. Gore’s liberalism came through during the debates and it killed him.

  22. sampo Says:

    mccain will knock every one of these questions out of the park. he’ll be like josh hamilton at a home run durby.

  23. DSkinner Says:

    Well, Obama certainly isn’t creating fairness in the tax code with his plan. Unless by fairness he means that the top 5% should be paying 70% of the taxes instead of 50%.

  24. DSkinner Says:

    Wow, DaveG. I completely disagree. I think Obama is going to come across as way too careful with his answers. He seems like he is trying to hide how he really feels so it doesn’t seem natural. That is what moderate voters will see.

    I think they will say to themselves, “Just come out with it”. I think most moderate voters aren’t watching this, but if they are they will wonder what Obama is trying to hide with some of his answers and they will disagree completely with his sentiment on others.

  25. Evil Conservative Says:

    I’m about 20 min behind on DVR.
    Let me tell you guys something: I love forums like this. O’Reilly and Wallace and Russert are great, but I also like the softball James Lipton, Charlie Rose, and Jay Leno forums. I think it’s good to have interviews where someone can really relax and let his true self come out or his over-practiced and deceptive self that will no doubt be needed in a meeting with Putin for example.
    It’s like the Home Run derby or batting practice. It really shows you how much power or skill in hitting to all fields and focus someone has. Obama thought this would be easy and he didn’t show up with his Game Face. He’s the guy that hit 2 HR’s to his 10 outs in the Derby while being favored to win it.
    I’ve even seen some fodder for attack ads so far from Obama.
    McCain has a golden opportunity to wow everyone here.

  26. DSkinner Says:

    Obama has been very condescending in arguing against the views of the main audience of this forum. He can’t demean the rationale of people who are on the other side of social issues while pretending to be in the middle.

    If the purpose of this forum was to move Obama from 20% Evangelical support to 33%, it didn’t happen.

  27. Thomas Says:

    I am liking this format a lot, because Warren is asking some legitimate questions, and both candidates are actually going to have enough time to respond to them. It’s taking the superficial nature out of political debates, and I think this is a good thing.

  28. Doug Forrester Says:

    DaveG is righter than he knows. I imagine at the best McCain gets a few million less Evangelical votes than Bush in 2004. At worst Obama could get 30-35% of the white Evangelical vote and win in a landslide.

    It’s becoming very clear to me that McCain is very weak among Evangelicals for a Republican. This is a problem that Obama is particularly suited to exploit with his easy and sincere discussion of his religious beliefs.

    Given the feel-good theology of Evangelicals it’s not surprising to me that so many are falling for Obama.

  29. sampo Says:

    26, agreed. how he motioned toward warren saying “purpose” really slowly was pretty lame.

  30. sampo Says:

    mccain should stay behind and challenge him to a real debate right there and now.

  31. DSkinner Says:

    Doug,

    Have you been watching? On which issue or issues do you feel Obama helped himself tonight?

    I think McCain has a chance to come out and come across as sincere instead of answering so carefully like Obama has done. The only times Obama has seemed sincere have been when he defended the liberal position or when he attacked the conservative position.

  32. Evil Conservative Says:

    26
    If the purpose of this forum was to move Obama from 20% Evangelical support to 33%, it didn’t happen.

    If you meant to type 3% instead of 33%, then yes, that decline is hopefully happening.

  33. sampo Says:

    obama cant even explain in 1 minute why he wants to be president. this is beyond belief.

  34. DSkinner Says:

    Why do you want to be President?

    “Uh, uh, uh, . . . - unresponsive - America isn’t a good country anymore.”

  35. Paul8148 Says:

    Oh good god oh mighty this blows…….

  36. DSkinner Says:

    I meant 33%. That is the target that Obama’s camp thinks they can get from Evangelicals and after tonight, the best Obama can hope for is that he didn’t lose votes.

  37. Paul8148 Says:

    by the way that whole Claince Thomas thing was creepy

  38. sampo Says:

    haha warren had to ASK the audience for a standing ovation.. lame

  39. sampo Says:

    i almost forgot what it looked like for mccain to share the stage with his opposing candidates.

  40. Doug Forrester Says:

    #31, I have been watching. I know the Evangelicals and this sort of thing (Obama’s pro-faith rhetoric) really appeals to many of them.

    Obama spoke in a way that was respectful about Christianity. This is more than most Democrats are ever able to do. I don’t think it’s hard for Obama to gain votes just on that basis.

  41. Evil Conservative Says:

    This is what happens when you think your radical Left-wing, Black Liberation Theological beliefs from the past 20 years are mainstream and then you are confronted by ACTUAL mainstream Christian beliefs.
    He was hopelessly unprepared for this.

    And DaveG stated my point, when Obama relaxes his instinctual answers are very liberal and illuminating to everyone.
    McCain should buy 120 second blocks during the Dem Convention and throughout October showing full in-context questions and bumbling answers from tonight. If all 120 million voters saw this past hour, Mac wins 55-45 no question.

  42. DSkinner Says:

    Well apparently I don’t know what I am talking about as far as how Obama did.

  43. DSkinner Says:

    The audience certainly likes McCain much more. I tend to think they are representative of who is watching which is why I think McCain is going to win the night if he can keep this up.

  44. sampo Says:

    marines in lebanon was brilliant.

  45. DaveG Says:

    I loved McCain’s jab at Bush regarding telling America to go shopping.

  46. DSkinner Says:

    McCain is doing awesome.

  47. Illinoisguy Says:

    How significant was his Meg Whitman remark? Could it signal something on his VP thinking?

  48. Doug Forrester Says:

    McCain is doing better than I expected.

    In fact I think this is a side of McCain that we RARELY ever see.

  49. JB Says:

    #47. I was thinking the same thing. He seemed to go out of his way to build her up.

  50. sampo Says:

    doug, did you seen mccain answer those questions at beliefnet?

  51. DSkinner Says:

    McCain is really going to be able to consolidate support based on this forum. McCain is the big time beneficiary of tonight. He is going to get a lot of Evangelicals motivated based on his answers tonight.

  52. DaveG Says:

    McCain seems sincere, serious, and honorable. He really is the grown up in the room. He’s the real “different kind of politician.”

  53. sampo Says:

    wow, i dont think i’ve seen mccain swing this far to the right before.

  54. DSkinner Says:

    DaveG,

    This is what I was referring to earlier. Obama came across as careful and measured and insincere, except for the rare moments when he defended liberalism or attacked conservatism.

    McCain actually believes what he says. I hope that the voters out there can tell the difference.

  55. DSkinner Says:

    This is really making me optimistic for November. If McCain can come across this well in the debates we will be able to go to be early on election night.

  56. MVRed.com Says:

    Great answer by McCain for us conservatives.
    Ginsburg-Stevens-Souter-Breyer should not have been nominated!

    PS: He should not have brought up GWB for Roberts and Alito. That could hurt him, although I agree with him!

  57. Gamecock Says:

    #54 amen
    The contrast is stark. man v Boy

  58. sampo Says:

    mccain has tailored his message to the pat robertson’s and jerry falwells of the 80’s. i don’t think saddleback fits that mold.

  59. Brett Passmore Says:

    #58 - that is ok - those people are watching.

  60. Gamecock Says:

    McCain is on fire. This low key format with a cone of silence and the same questions is maybe the best way to evaluate that I have seen. Better than a debate. Presidents don’t debate in doing their job. They apply their principles, and this format brings that out.

  61. sampo Says:

    i disagree mvred, alito and especially roberts had bipartisan support.

  62. DSkinner Says:

    Judging by the applause, they love McCain.

    Some of that may be based on the biases they came in with, but I if you took a poll of Saddleback before and after, I am sure McCain has an even larger lead now than he did before.

  63. DSkinner Says:

    Can we send McCain into a sound booth for an hour before all the debates. He is on fire!

    Bottle this McCain up and he wins over 300 electoral votes.

  64. MVRed.com Says:

    Sampo, I’m aware, but mentioning Bush could hurt him. I like Bush a lot, but that could turn off voters.

  65. bethtopaz Says:

    I have to say that for the first time I am impressed with McCain. He put in some good and funny jabs during the debates (even at the expense of my guy), but tonight he is on fire.

    He’s taking control of the debate and running away with it. The pastor is having a hard time keeping up. So much for being an old guy.

    Impressive.

  66. bethtopaz Says:

    Now if he just makes sure to choose a pro-life VP, it will be great!

  67. sampo Says:

    so it took obama an hour to answer the same number of questions that mccain answered in 30 minutes. what’s more, mccain actually answered them too.

  68. nowandlater Says:

    Team Obama should be scared. I think Obama gonna have to flood the airways with commercials to win (which they could do).

  69. nowandlater Says:

    Who here thinks McCain should allow the convention to pick his running mate?

    I think that is the best way for McCain to keep his Maverick brand and at the same time allow GOP regulars to get behind the VP pick. Plus the media would go crazy covering it.

  70. Illinoisguy Says:

    I don’t know if that is the best way, nowandlater, but if he does, Mitt will win in a landslide..

  71. DSkinner Says:

    Wow, McCain’s answer on why he wants to be President was miles better than Obama’s.

    If Team Obama felt good after he finished as some on FoxNews suggested they should, there is no way they feel that good now.

  72. JamesB Says:

    McCain was inspiring - he did a great job.

  73. Bryan Says:

    I missed the last answer! What did McCain say about wanting to be president?

  74. bethtopaz Says:

    I actually got goosebumps when McCain talked - a couple times. I was shocked at my response. Have a new respect for this man.

    Now the guys at Fox are trying to cover for BO - saying how great he did. Yuck.

  75. DSkinner Says:

    I can’t believe these people on Fox think Obama did well. I wonder how low their expectations must have been before the event.

  76. Brett Passmore Says:

    I am amazed at how good McCain is doing. I am inspired.

  77. Bryan Says:

    That’s weird because CNN is saying that McCain was far and away the best tonight.

  78. Brett Passmore Says:

    dont forget this: fox news employees have donated more to barack than to mccain. they are still leftist journalists.

  79. MVRed.com Says:

    Both guys did good. In the end, if you are an undecided voter, I find it hard to believe you’d leave it wanting to vote for Obama more than McCain…

  80. JamesB Says:

    If McCain keeps delivering these type of performances, my vote will become a vote FOR McCain instead of just a vote AGAINST Obama.

  81. DSkinner Says:

    I think both Foxnews and CNN’s views are being colored by their expectations.

    When you compare both candidates side-by-side McCain was much, much better on every answer.

  82. Bryan Says:

    Watching John McCain tonight was truly inspiring to me as a supporter of his since October of last year. John McCain talked about things that i’ve never heard him talk much about because he believes that faith should be a private matter, but talked about it tonight and he did a wonderful job. And i hope that the Evangelical’s who were watching tonight as well as many others will see John McCain for the REAL person that he truly is and support him in this election over Barack Obama. John McCain was honest and forthright in this forum and Obama stumbled along. I’m proud to be a supporter of such a fine man, John McCain!

  83. Jonathan Says:

    McCain hit all cylinders tonight. The crowd was enthusiastic and I can’t see why any evangelical would consider voting for Obama.

  84. sjm855 Says:

    One candidate was boring, tired and equivocal. The other was energetic, hopeful and inspiring. Little did we know that the candidates with those qualities would be flipped. Bring on the national debates!

    Warren was an excellent moderator, by the way, and I loved the format.

  85. Evil Conservative Says:

    Now that a lot of us are all giddy-ed up, seriously think about contributing money to the RNC so McCain can better compete. I can’t stand these political gangsters on either side, but think about putting your money where your mouth is if you feel the way a lot of the comments stated above.
    $199 and under, I believe, and your contribution remains anonymous if there is PR you’re worried about in your personal or professional life.
    Look at tonight and Peggy Noonan’s article here:

    http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB121813852996621575.html

    Something is happening that we need to get behind.

  86. MVRed.com Says:

    When the one analyst on CNN, an Obama supporter, said John McCain is going to be a much much tougher opponent in the debates and this election than anyone could’ve imagined, that spoke wonders!

    Huge night for McCain, I’d love to see him get a bounce in the polls come Monday and Tuesday for this performance.

  87. Bryan Says:

    Evil Conservative,

    Kudos to that my friend, we will all need to donate a lot of money to the RNC, especially after the conventions in order to help McCain.

  88. Adam Says:

    Okay. I didn’t see any of this but I can tell from the responses of some of the so-cons here that it seems McCain talked about his faith, he soothed some of your concerns. He went to this forum for religious conservatives and bared his soul.

    So that means that the so-cons are on board now, right? I don’t want to hear any more pouting or whining that McCain isn’t speaking to so-con concerns. He showed up and did well. So no more threats of staying home and pouting.

    Lets win this thing.

  89. MVRed.com Says:

    BREAKING NEWS PER CNN

    A Senior McCain Advisor emailed CNN saying “You heard some of the things McCain said about abortion, and now you will not hear anymore talk from us about a Pro-Abortion Rights VP.”

  90. Matthew E. Miller Says:

    I went to Borders during the forum, because I was expecting McCain to blow the forum. Now I’m upset that I missed it. I’ll be watching the replay.

  91. DSkinner Says:

    Matthew,

    I will be very interested to see what you think after you watch it, especially since you have read what we all think ahead of time.

  92. Bryan Says:

    Matthew,

    Yea McCain did very well tonight, you won’t be dissapointed once you see the replay!

  93. rnst_p Says:

    I am pretty shocked at how well McCain did. He was much more decisive in his answers and shared a lot of touching, personal details about his life while still being absolutely hilarious when the situation called for it. It’s a real shame it was on at the same time as the Olympics on a Saturday night… I don’t think many people will see it.

    Now I know why Obama dodged all those town hall meetings with McCain…

  94. Iowa Says:

    I just donated 25 dollars to McCain and the RNC… you should too… we can win this!

  95. Evil Conservative Says:

    88

    And to hammer the nail through the board for you so-cons (and, despite my moniker, I am one for the most part), Mac said all 4 Supreme Court judges that have driven me and you nuts for the last 10-20 years should never have even been nominated. If Mac can even get another Kennedy for Stevens that gives us conservatives (So-con, E-con, and Sec-con) 2 bites at the apple instead of 1 on EVERY SINGLE CASE.

    The choice here is so obvious if you even lean conservative.

    “Just Win Baby!”

  96. DSkinner Says:

    So who is this hack on CNN who keeps stumping for Obama. I really think he is only a “analyst” because he is black. He doesn’t sound like he has a clue what he is talking about.

  97. craig Says:

    McCain was great tonight.
    But, how does he put a Pro-Choice VP on his ticket when he tells Rick Warren and the audience that life and legal status begin at conception? Isn’t abortion then, illegal and , effectively, murder ? Not to be too emotional about this, but there was NO EQUIVOCATION on McCain’s part and this will be extremely difficult to evade with a Pro Choice pick. Everybody will say his positions are meaningless, if he does.
    Can’t see Ridge and Lieberman and Guiliani, given this McCain answer certainty .

  98. sjm855 Says:

    97: Because the VP has zero influence over social policy unless the President wants him to?

  99. matt Says:

    this forum again shows that while obama can read a speech beautifully, he struggles in direct debate. mccain is an old war horse, and has debated for years. he is not nearly as smooth as obama, but is far more direct, decisive then barack.

    note to mccain camp: his POW stories were bringing everyone to tears, he must stop being so modest and continue to tell these stories, his personal story touches so many more people then anything obama has to offer. he must sell his story to overcome the liberal machine.

  100. matt Says:

    i also think the vp in a mccain white house will have a more traditional role, and not the immense power cheney has had. so while the he may not select them as vp, you can bet that lieberman and ridge will have cabinet posts, at state and defense most likely.

  101. Kristofer Says:

    #100, You are correct, everyone on here is concerned about the VP, but it is the cabinet that is important.

    Remember!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! McCain said the President should be a leader, not a Manager.

  102. Richard M Says:

    “But, how does he put a Pro-Choice VP on his ticket when he tells Rick Warren and the audience that life and legal status begin at conception?”

    That comment exemplifies why many in the pro-life community don’t understand the abortion question, and why they haven’t made more progress in this country. A person is perfectly capable of saying life begins at conception and should be afforded legal status, but also recognise that such ISN’T the current law, and until it is, we can’t legislate like it is. I’m sympathetic, but you aren’t asking or answering the right questions to win the issue.

    As for the debate, I thought Sen Obama muddled a bit, but overall did pretty well. I thought Sen McCain started off bumbling a bit, but just caught fire and dominated the debate. I think the anecdotes went over very well, especially the one about the prison guard.

  103. Joshua Lawson Says:

    A good night for Obama but an absolute home-run performance from John McCain. He was nothing short of inspiring. If McCain can succeed in bringing the discussion to who would make a better Commander-in-Chief, then it’s game over for Team Obama. I was shocked at how good McCain was in this format, let’s hope he can keep it up and doesn’t ruin this hopeful night for conservatives with a poor VP choice.

  104. Joel Says:

    The only thing that saved Obama here was the limited number of people that watched it (it might be high but I’m just guessing).

  105. Thomas Alan Says:

    I’ve never seen McCain as good as he was tonight.

    Also, I REALLY like this format. I hope they do something like this again in October sometime.

  106. Seth Says:

    Obama’s best moment (from my perspective):
    Saying that defining when life begins is a “theological” and “scientific” issue “above [his] paygrade”.

    McCain’s best moment:
    Saying that for one moment, he and his Vietnamese captor were “just two Christians worshipping God” together on Christmas. It made me feel like McCain actually had some spiritual connection with what he was saying. Obama gave the typical pandering response: “Oh, Jesus is my lord and savior, blah, blah, blah. How’s that?”

  107. Neal Says:

    Same old … no teleprompter for Obama - so he actually hems and haws - says nothing.

    Seems the only thing that IS in is pay grade is infanticide.

    Obama has no soul, just a desire for power.

  108. Frank Says:

    I wonder if Chris Matthews had that “Thrill going up his leg” this time.

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