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It seems like a lot of people are complaining about negativity here, and a lot of harsh feelings towards some on the front page who decide to take on our party’s nominee, arguing against his strategy, blunders and tactics.
In the primaries most of you know I was a huge Romney supporter (still am) who made the mistake of agreeing to be on his Faith and Values Steering Committee. I doubt I would agree to do something like that again. Why? Because it really removed my ability to call things as I saw them. Every time I wrote something that was at all criticizing of Mitt people who hated Mitt would talk as if the tables have turned on Mitt and those who like him immediately supposed my motives where to get some air time or something self-indulging.
It’s pretty silly really. When I wrote the post Romney’s Fork, I had a lot of responses, including the Wall Street Journal using my writing to fill up about two-thirds of one of their articles about Mitt supporters unhinged. Believe me, there was no joy in any of that. I didn’t want it publicized everywhere; I just wanted the people I write to and with to have some different angles to consider. There is always someone wanting to exploit I guess.
I sincerely doubt that anyone on this site writes negative posts about McCain or Palin to become noticed or because they want to throw and anchor to a drowning man. Sometimes criticism of those we support is the best thing they can hear. You disagree? Then why do we a have a first amendment? To allow us to cheer for our party’s leaders louder? No, it’s tell our leaders what we expect, whether we like them or not.
I am going to go out on a limb here, and extrapolate that our Founding Fathers saw criticism as a net positive. Call me crazy. Sometimes good people still are inclined to hand constituents and supporters crap sandwiches, which is apparently what a lot of the party think McCain was doing, both in his handling of Palin and bail out.
There are a lot of things I enjoy about the sport of Politics. But there are a lot of things I don’t. One of them is the constant impugning of peoples motives when they decide to take a popular idea to task within the party. Another would be the idea it’s bad to say our VP did so-so among the people whom we need to win over even though she threw the base more red meat than one could devour in a night. Maybe that’s because I don’t think the world is made solely of black and whites, but instead Black and White with huge amount of grays in between that Human’s will never (at least in this life) be able to authoritatively declare what is black and what is white. It’s a complex world with more angles than our own.
So to those who don’t like negative talk or criticism of our candidates, I say relax. If McCain and Palin are really that fantastic they will hold up and perhaps learn from their folleys…which all candidates have.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:47 am
As long as it isn’t DaveG
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:00 am
Jason any complaints about Obama? How exactly does constant criticism of the Republican ticket help the Republicans win?
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:02 am
The GOP will never be where it should be without criticism. Let’s face it, it’s been as atrocious as the Democratic party over the last decade. If people would simply put away they cheerleading outfits for a second maybe they could see that it needs a major change.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:03 am
#2 Who gives a f*** if the Republicans win? If they’re not worth supporting, it doesn’t make a difference. Without a vigilant, participating populace, why even have a democracy?
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:06 am
Oh, of course not. For McCain-Palin to lose increases the chances for Willard Milton Romney in 2012, or so the Romney worshipers allege.
This post is mawkish and self-serving. If you want to constantly criticize our candidates then you should suck it up and prepare to be criticized yourself.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:09 am
2. Sure, thousands.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:09 am
#5 Did you read his post?
There are a lot of things I enjoy about the sport of Politics. But there are a lot of things I don’t. One of them is the constant impugning of peoples [sic] motives
Now you’re accusing him of attacking McCain/Palin so that Romney has a chance in 2012. Do you see the irony?
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:11 am
dotan, WTH?
Have you not read some of Jason’s posts about McCain and Romney this past summer? He was one of the first Romney bloggers to support McCain after the primary season, and in fact he has also reflected on Romney’s campaign.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:12 am
And if you are going to criticize me for criticizing our candidate than you should suck it up and understand you a thoughtless lemming.
/stupidgames
Just operate on good faith and you will come to find out that everyone else is pretty much as well.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:13 am
So change it, rube. I assume from your admonition that you are already active within your local and perhaps state party, advocating for your point of view and working hard to recruit others to pursue it whether through practice or through policy. But then were you active within the party you would know that winning elections is a part of what a party does, and this entails advocating for those the party delegates elect, right?
I suppose my question reduces to this: In what sense are you critical if your criticism reduces to tearing down the candidates we selected and HAS NOTHING TO WITH the practical and productive criticism that takes the form of party building (e.g. recruiting the right candidates so that we can develop a leadership pool).
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:15 am
Of course I’m impugning his motives. And just because he writes about how he doesn’t like it when people impugn motives does not make my impugning of his motives ironic; it simply makes them contradictory, and to contradict is something that you do when you disagree.
Go look up the word irony.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:18 am
Dotan,
What’s funny is no one brought up Romney in 2012. You did. And last I checked you are the one that ran the anti-Mitt site.
If someone needs to check motives at the door it’s the guy with the phd.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:19 am
winning elections is a part of what a party does, and this entails advocating for those the party delegates elect, right?
Wrong. I’m not going to go out of my way to promote an idiot just because they share a few more of my views than “the other guy” if I think the idiot doesn’t deserve to win.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:19 am
A Romney supporter referring to someone else as a thoughtless lemming. Now that’s a laboratory pure instance of irony.
Does this mean that you’re actually going to stop your stupid games?
What? Bad faith? Are you ascribing motives to me now? Because unless you enjoy privileged access to the hidden intents of people’s souls, that’s what you’re doing, and that would be ironic since you yourself denounced the practice.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:23 am
Dotan,
I was speaking in generalities. I am glad though you take what I say to heart.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:24 am
dotan, all you want to do is, fight. Take up boxing, hockey or Wen-do. Wen-do would probably be your best option.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:26 am
dotan,
Romney supporters care about the economy, therefore, the last president we want is Obama. Quit thinking that we care more about Romney’s success than we do about our own families. Maybe we are smarter than you think we are. I personally feel that McCain can’t fix this mess, but I also feel that Obama will make the mess a lot worse, therefore, I will vote for McCain, because I’m not an idiot and I know who would make a better president. I want the better choice in office every Presidential election. I don’t believe in silly games of looking into the future. Besides, Romney said that he probably wouldn’t run again anyway. I don’t blame him with the amount of junk people threw at him.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:27 am
#16 that’s not as safe or manly as posting anonymously in Internet forums
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:27 am
Oh, there’s plenty to complain about. To me, Mac’s campaign has seemed chaotic and ad hoc. This has contrasted poorly with Obama’s organization, even if a good bit of the fund-raising of the O folks has gone without much scrutiny. I suspect he’s breaking finance laws left and right, probably even receiving donations from home and abroad from non-citizens.
I’ve been most pained by Mac’s under-utilization of his pluses, above all of Palin.
With her obvious appeal to rural parts of the country, she should have been put on a bus and sent touring throughout the Ohio Valley to sell energy policies and the fish-and-game lifestyle, aka, gun rights. Beyond those parts of OH and PA, her tour should have moved quickly through Gulf Coast oil & gas country and into TX briefly before climbing the Rockies to talk up oil shale exploitation and the joys of hunting.
I wish they hadn’t wasted so much time trying to appeal to Mac’s “base” — the MSM — by rolling her out there under such intense, critical media scrutiny. I think a more conventional national GOP candidate would have known to ignore the MSM more rather than trying to convert the old-line media by debating them and winning. More conventional GOP candidates would have known the national media were hopeless.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:28 am
dotan,
Quit trying to prove you are the smartest kid on the block. Your opinion is not fact.
It is obvious to everyone that you are carrying over your previous hate for Jason and other Romney supporters and you are allowing that to cloud your judgement and distort your analysis.
What if we had criticized Bush for his awful fiscal policies earlier?
What if Bush had listened to McCain’s criticisms on Iraq before the 2006 elections?
Just because you don’t like the person who is making the criticism doesn’t mean that they have bad motives or that they are necessarily wrong.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:32 am
How exactly does constant criticism of the Rep ticket help the Rep ticket win?
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:34 am
21. I can’r believe that needs an explanation. Don’t mean to be rude at all, but the question of how can criticism help seems really pedantic to me.
Then again I teach private music instruction at a college where I use criticism all day to help students improve. So it’s part of my daily living.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:35 am
#21 Well I’m betting that it would’ve been beneficial for McCain to have listened to our criticism of his lack of economic credentials. Maybe he would’ve picked a VP that inspires confidence in the topic instead of one that “feels our pain”. Do you think he’d have higher poll numbers if the criticism had been heeded? Arguably…
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:37 am
OK., I think I understand. This would be the difference between an activist, someone who accepts the world has he or she finds it and attempts to work within it guided by principle, and an ideologue, someone who issues evaluative rulings based on what he or she believes.
So, you say, the “idiots” don’t deserve to be elected. On ideological grounds I would agree with you. McCain advocating for the bailout severely strained my commitment to pragmatism and principle; I very nearly decided to walk away on ideological grounds. On practical and pragmatic grounds, however, the party has spoken, the candidate our party selected has himself ruled in favor of this insane transfer of both wealth and popular sovereignty, and, damn it, it’s election time. If I want to change the party—and I do—my task is to involve myself in party building (which I defined above), because when we lose elections the ambit of our party’s operations diminishes, and the possibilities open to us diminish, and the opportunities for expressing our principles in law, policy, or the administration of public enterprise, also diminish. Do you see how that works? And, by the way, this is the way parties in our system are supposed to operate: they force you to engage and to compromise. They were meant to filter factional discord. Do I like it? Sometimes. Is it pretty? Almost never.
Anyway, in your case we can agree to disagree. Purists and ideologues have their place. It isn’t within party politics, however. But they have their place. The good thing about ideologues is that they almost never have large followings, e.g. Buchanan. Ron Paul generated a lot of interest this cycle though.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:37 am
Bloggers are not held to the same standard as main stream journalists, due to the fact they blog on anti-this or pro-that sites…so in reality the bloggers on this board are pseudo, online pundits for the McCain Camp. If the commentary does not serve towards the greater good of the campaign in which they “represent,” they are in fact doing harm to the cause in which their candidate represents. As you noted in your post, the MSM, will take a blogger’s words and sell those words in any way they see fit and if you, as a blogger, aren’t responsible enough in your criticism…you could be helping the other side, with friends like these…
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:37 am
Dotan=echo chamber
Jason Bonham=Plato
Sarah Palin=Ronald Reagan
Mitt Romney=Al Smith
Josh Romney=JFK
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:38 am
LOL. What paranoia!
McCain=Nixon. The first term.
Obama=Messiah
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:43 am
Dotan
when we lose elections the ambit of our party’s operations diminishes, and the possibilities open to us diminish, and the opportunities for expressing our principles in law, policy, or the administration of public enterprise, also diminish
I don’t think this is always the case. Bush was “our party”, and he won, but look at the damage he’s done to the conservative cause. If we’d had (God forbid) four years of John Kerry by now, I think the movement would be a lot stronger and we’d be able to draw in more undecideds and moderates.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:43 am
hey nowandlater, who would you compare yourself to?
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:45 am
Thanks, Jason. As someone who might not be a True Conservative by 2008 standards but is nevertheless supporting McCain with all he’s got, it’s nice to see a front-page post that welcomes friendly disagreement.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:45 am
nowandlater=Chris Matthews
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:46 am
I don’t know if that’s a good thing though. People say I always yell and I have to keep wiping down the spittle off of my screen. It’s pretty inconvenient.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:47 am
That is a superb counter-argument. But how were we supposed to know that Bush would go insane during his second term?
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:48 am
#32 you yell at your screen? spittle? oh my… you’d better pray Obama’s not the next president
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:50 am
Unlike some of you, I actually really really really care if the Rep ticket wins the presidency.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:50 am
how were we supposed to know that Bush would go insane during his second term?
That’s what scares me about McCain. He’s gone insane and he hasn’t even been elected yet…
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:52 am
Dotan
Although, my frustration is, what if McCain is another Bush who will ultimately harm the cause? What do we do in the meantime? Some people actively hope he loses so the country will get a taste of four years of socialism then come running back to common sense.
Yeah, we can be active in trying to influence the party at local levels, but…
Frustrating…
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:55 am
Suspending his campaign and attempting to delay a presidential debate was nuts to be sure. Not a confidence builder. Supporting a plan to transfer US$ 1 trillion into the hands of bankers who deserve to fail—also not a confidence builder.
But then I play that video of the little children singing praises to Obama and suddenly I feel my commitment to our outrageously imperfect party and its madman candidate again renewed, again refreshed, and again intact.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:55 am
4 years of socialism is good for the country? Got any examples of the demise of socialist programs in America once implemented?
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:58 am
Yeah, but man I’m tired of just voting for the guy that scares me the least. We have some excellent leaders in this country. They just seem to get weeded out by the time we vote for the president.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Dude. I am so right there with you on that. There has never been an election cycle so furiously muddled. And I am sympathetic to the argument that a McCain win would actually be bad for our long term interests, and here I speak more of the conservative movement than the GOP, which has always been uncomfortable with movement conservatives even as they embraced our votes and paid lip service to our values. The problem for me is the fate of the downticket republicans, the hundreds of Sarah Palins who are running for school boards, city councils, or state legislatures, because this will become our leadership pool for the next cycle and cycles to come.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:00 pm
#39 Grant
I’m by no means advocating that strategy. I was only noting that some people promote it. I personally find it counter-productive and even dangerous. As you note, the government rarely decreases in size.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:01 pm
You are right. If I publish absolute BS, I am called on it immediately.
There is no such accountability in the MSM.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:05 pm
If I publish absolute BS, I am called on it immediately.
Hey, I’ve only done that a couple of times
There is no such accountability in the MSM.
How true that is. :’(
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:07 pm
No one has criticized our nominee more than me over the past 2 years and I will hold his feet to the fire for the next four, but now is the time to WIN.
We seem to jump too quick around here too. If we see a problem that needs to be addressed and it isn’t addressed by the campaign in 2 seconds, we freak.
Then, in 48 hours a great ad appears.
Let’s not ape the other side’s criticisms.
It’s time to win.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Sarah Palin=Ronald Reagan=BS
How come now one called me on it? Do some really believe it?
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Not this cycle, no. I would like to believe that they will pay a price for that but that would be wishful thinking on my part. They know their business.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:10 pm
I concur, effendi. It’s just that sometimes I need a moment or two to remind myself why.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:16 pm
#46 There are some that wander around here that would claim straight-faced that Palin is greater than Reagan. But I don’t think most people are that clueless.
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:09 pm
I agree. There have been too many threats to “ban” commenters from this site because they criticize McCain or whomever the powers that be are fond of politically. I have found it a deterrent to really getting into the conversation here. Ultimately, I can go elsewhere and I do for political discussion, but it lowers the ranking of this site compared to other more open forums. I don’t approve of indecency or profanity, which seems to find it’s way onto this site with little notice or reprimand. But to threaten those that offer honest political opinion….it’s happening a lot lately in our society. Perhaps it prepares us for an Obama society and the reinstatement of the Fairness Doctrine…?
October 3rd, 2008 at 3:10 pm
It’s one thing to criticize, it’s another to focus more on criticizing our side than the other side, and it’s another thing to say the other candidate has won 30 days, and it’s another thing to quit focusing on ‘08 and focusing ‘12. There’s constructive criticism and then there’s ” You’re terrible and going to fail” criticism – a lot lately seems to be the latter.