Originally posted at The Lobbyist:
Various news sources have information for the willing:
Congress.org has five interesting provisions about the bill, as well as a link to the bill itself.
CNN has an article, a political analysis of sorts as well as a link to the bill.
NRTL blasts the bill, according to Politico.
AP, NYT, and NPR compare the House and Senate bills.
Remember- this bill does not include the more-than-quarter-trillion dollar “Doc Fix” bill that failed in the Senate a month ago. So whatever the Congressional Budget Office says…add that to it. The current CBO score is $849 billion, which includes Medicare cuts and raising some taxes, and will reduce the debt by $127 billion. So, in reality, the debt will increase by $118 billion, unless the government and CBO estimates are underestimates, which is generally the case.
Either way, the CBO score is great momentum for Senator Reid (D-NV) with fiscally conservative Democrats- who may ignore the “Doc Fix” numbers for the final vote on the Senate bill- and bad for those of us opposed to many of the Democratic health reform concepts. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, abortion is covered in the bill and there is a public option. This is bad because they are bad ideas, but good because it will allow moderate Democrats to oppose the bill if abortion and the public option are included, as some have said they will do. Whatever else happens, let’s at least hope the public option and abortion are eliminated from the legislation. Contact your Senators.
One last note: this is the preliminary CBO score Democrats are all excited about. The final one is supposed to be out today.
November 19th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Health reform is definitely gonna get passed now. I can feel it.
November 19th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
RomneyCare goes national!
Significant tax hikes. Plundering medicare of billions. Layers of new supervisory bureaucracies. What could possibly go wrong?
November 19th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
I still want an answer about how if government health care is so bad, shouldn’t cutting Medicare be good?
November 19th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Kevin,
Yes and no. Yes, because cutting Medicare dilutes the amount of money wasted, and therefore lowers the deficit and the debt. Bad, because who says they’re cutting it in the 20-30% waste area identified by the Dartmouth Atlas group? (Check them out- ACOs are the new policy wonk idea. Mayo Clinic, etc.) Is the government going to hurt seniors who have paid into Medicare for 40, 50 or even 60 years? I dislike government programs, by and large, but a promise is a promise. On the other hand, in order to balance the budget, the middle class and old people WILL have to be hit at some point.
Of course, this assumes there actually WILL be cuts…and they won’t be delayed like the “Doc Fix” is every year.
November 19th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
This just in. CBO issues a smackdown to Harry Ried’s claim that his plan will reduce the deficit.
http://www.house.gov/budget_republicans/press/2007/pr20091119cboscore.pdf
November 19th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
What an odd question.
No one is suggesting that we cut medicare in the abstract–which is sad, but true; a Republican congress under Gingrich proposed that in the 90s and got their heads handed to them on a plate.
The plan is to cut medicare to pay for universal care, especially the popular medicare advantage plan of the Bush era, a plan that allows 3 party private providers to play. This is not just bad but aggressively bad.
November 19th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
#2 dotan,
I’m a MA resident and have been all my life. I own a mid-sized business there that I started from scratch. UNDER ROMNEY, (I repeat), UNDER ROMNEY, MY taxes went down, My employees premiums WENT DOWN! Mass Health Care (Romney Care for idiots) has NO PUBLIC OPTION. I know Hucksters and Palinites like to repeat that it does, Maybe if they say it enough, it’ll come true, I DON’T THINK SO! ROMNEY VETOED many of the goodies that the Ma House tried to insert; i.e., illegal aliens. Gov Patrick later added some goodies and diverted some of the funding from the fees, licenses, etc. Penalties by the way, are $100-$250, NO JAIL TIME. And Yes Insurance for those who CAN afford it is mandatory. Would you rather have someone (WHO CAN AFFORD HEALTH INSURANCE) use an emergency room when needed? We know TAX PAYERS in the end, PAY FOR PEOPLE who do this. I’d be for People who can afford health care and don’t want it, to sign a WAVER statement that reads, “I want to be refused Medical treatment unless I can pay for it in cash or credit” Do you think any of the DEADBEATS would go for this? They wouldn’t be required then to have the insurance and TAX PAYERS wouldn’t be the suckers stuck with the bills.
November 19th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Dotan,
I hate to say it, but that’s not accurate. I just skimmed the letter, and it talks about two House bills, not the Senate one.
November 19th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
What’s not accurate?
November 19th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Sorry- I should have been more specific. Your claim of a “CBO smackdown” in Comment #5 is not correct. The letter by CBO addressed two House bills, not Senator Reid’s bill.
November 19th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Maybe that explains why MA is near bankruptcy.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/11/health-care-reform-bill-opinions-contributors-david-gratzer.html
November 19th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Here is some more to counter your account, all-caps boy.
http://spectator.org/blog/2009/10/28/mitt-moves-goal-posts-on-romne
November 19th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Yet more:
http://www.examiner.com/x-16500-Lake-County-Independent-Examiner~y2009m10d30-Health-care-enforcement-agency
Money quote (get it? Money?):
November 19th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
OK. Here’s another link, titled: CBO: Reid plan increases deficits $89 billion in first ten years
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/19/cbo-reid-plan-increases-deficits-89-billion-in-first-ten-years/
November 19th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
So may all please agree that RomneyCare is a disaster and just assume it to be true? It will save us a lot of time if we don’t have to prove that water is wet or that the blue sky is blue every time we discuss RomneyCare.
November 19th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
#12, #13,
That BS might work with some others on this site but not all. Premiums went up, UNDER PATRICK!!!!!!!!! for reasons GIVEN!
Please refer to #7
November 19th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
dotan.
Where are you from dotan? You seem to be such an expert on MA! Do you believe everything you read? Especialy when you AGREE with it?
November 19th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
I thought that might be what you meant- in the monetary reality, yes, the CBO is saying Reid’s bill will be expensive. In the political, bill-by-bill voting world, it’s not. IF you take Reid’s bill and add it to the “Doc Fix” bill, as I said in my original post above, it doesn’t reduce the deficit. If you don’t, as CBO didn’t in its preliminary scoring that came out yesterday, it reduces it.
November 19th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Bosman (easy on the caps, please).
You lost the argument about RomneyCare. Next.
November 19th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Who said anything about premiums? RomneyCare is a fiscal train wreck whether the premiums went up or down.
I understand your impulse to try to blame anyone but the policy’s author, the man who now argues that RomneyCare was never about cost containment (snarf! guffaw!), but please try to understand that in the real world people take responsibility for their harebrained decisions.
November 19th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
#19,
Why, Because You say so?
November 19th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
#20,
Explain, How it is a Fiscal Train wreck, As you say?
November 19th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
No, because you didn’t say anything that refutes, rebuts, or contradicts any claim I made, any factual assertion I issued, or any source I cited. See how that works? The burden of proof is now on you and until you stop shirking that burden you lose.
November 19th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Don’t have to. Better minds than mine already have. Follow any of the links I posted. Even Romney himself has quit trying to justify RomneyCare in terms of cost:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=749488
So if Romney dropped that stupid line of reasoning, why haven’t you?
November 19th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
#22,
why do Most people from MA, Approve of the system?
November 19th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
21, No. Because of reality. Try it, my friend.
Mitt has some good qualities. (Though, not many.)
Ramming Romneycare through was not one.
Fair enough?
November 19th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
#26,
why is it Popular with MA Residents?
November 19th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
25, Massachusettes, thankfully will not be deciding our next President.
November 19th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
I don’t know that they do. You didn’t cite a source. But were I to grant your claim and were I pressed for an explanation I would answer that free stuff from the government is always popular. The problem is that eventually the bill comes due. Medicare is also popular; it’s also going bankrupt. That Romney didn’t and apparently still doesn’t understand this simple principle is reason enough to doubt his purchase on reality.
November 19th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
#29,
Your only argument is, that in the MA Health Care system, costs went up? For Who? Why? Isn’t the cost of just about everything going up?
November 19th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
“I think the Democratic leadership has been recklessly irresponsible in pushing something that is not only a policy that the American people don’t truly support, but worse, that would have a devastating impact on jobs and the economy,”
Mike Huckabee today at Notre Dame.
November 19th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
My argument is that RomneyCare is a fiscal disaster independent of any general rise in costs (what an odd thing to say), and I provided links to a lot of people who agree, and one of them is Romney himself: Romney defends himself now by claiming that his plan was never about cost containment, so may we please drop the subject?–only no one wants to drop the subject because MA is in a fiscal crisis over healthcare and Romney’s finger prints are all over it.
November 19th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
#32
Ma is in a Fiscal Crisis because of Health Care? and Nothing Else?
November 19th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
#32,
Ma is in Fiscal crisis because of the Rise in Health Care costs, ONLY? Is that what your saying?
November 19th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Yikes are you literal. Here would be my claim: RomneyCare is a fiscal disaster independent of any other fiscal disaster going in MA.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
#35,
Do you think MA might be in a fiscal crisis because of Sweet Heart Union Deals and Over Spending?
November 19th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
#35,
what part of the MA budget goes for Ma Care? Do you know?
November 19th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
I don’t know. The links I provided and the sources I cite refer to RomneyCare as a fiscal disaster all by itself. Romney himself doesn’t mention unions either when he tries to distance himself from the ill effects of his own policy madness.
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=749488
November 19th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Correction;
#35,
what part of the MA budget goes for Ma health Care? Do you know?
November 19th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Not a clue. It wouldn’t be relevant to my argument in any case.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
if MA is in fiscal Crisis (you brought it up) and it is some how related to the cost of Math Health Care, Why isn’t it’s COST, relevant?
November 19th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
The CBO report: http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/107xx/doc10731/Reid_letter_11_18_09.pdf
November 19th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Because RomneyCare was supposed to pay for itself. It doesn’t. It’s costs are spiraling out of control. Duh.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
You’re inferring that MA is in crisis because of Mass Health Cares Cost?
November 19th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
How many times are you going to ask me that? How many times do I have to answer it?
November 19th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
You haven’t answered it! Ma Health Care isn’t the Problem in MA. Over spending and Sweetheart deals are.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Yes, I did. See #35.
Romney himself disagrees with you, otherwise he wouldn’t be running away from the issue of cost containment. Here is the link -again-:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=749488
So take up your denial of reality with Romney.
Once again: Independent of any other factor, RomneyCare is out of control–it is a spiraling fiscal disaster.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
#47,
Once again: Independent of any other factor, RomneyCare is out of control–it is a spiraling fiscal disaster.
=============================
just not in Massachusetts!
November 19th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Even a lackwit like Romney disagrees with you. So what does that make you!?
November 19th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
#49
A Taxpayer in Massachusetts satisfied with Ma Health Care!
What’s that make you?
Just out of curiosity, what do you think of my Health Waver idea on a NATIONAL LEVEL? see #7
November 19th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Doesn’t make me anything. I already conceded that free stuff from the government is popular. Here is what I wrote that the last time you tried this lame dodge, lame dodge boy:
November 19th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
#51
Do you always Quote yourself?
Just out of curiosity, what do you think of my Health Waver idea on a NATIONAL LEVEL? see #7
November 19th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Almost never. But you ask the same stupid questions and issue the same stupid claims over and over, so why not?
Just out of curiosity, what do you think of my Health Waver idea on a NATIONAL LEVEL? see #7
I don’t know what a “waver” is. Do you mean “waiver”?
November 19th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
#51,
I wrote that the last time you tried this lame dodge, lame dodge boy
===============
Now that we’re friends, can I call you ‘douNUT’?
November 19th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
I don’t care what you call me.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Dotan is such an IDIOT! Masscare is a friggin’ 1.2% of the state budget, and is within the budget set aside for it. Mitt’s version would have been revenue neutral, but with the changes by Dems it has gone up by 88 million per year, which is .3% (3/10ths of 1%). You are such a liar, or else you are very misinformed.
November 19th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
#53/
On when you file your taxes you would get 3 choices;
1. Have insurance (submit proof)
2. Don’t have Insurance (fine if not gotten in x days)
3. NO INSURANCE: “I want to be refused Medical treatment unless I can pay for it in cash or credit”
November 19th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
#56,
Why did you give away the punch line?
November 19th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Interesting idea. But probably not practicable social policy in an era when the government forces treatment on scientologists and others who would refuse it. Health care is not just a right to some policy planners: it’s mandatory. And what about children or those of diminished function? Would any doctor honour such a waiver when faced with a broken body on a slab?
I don’t necessarily agree with that position, but I don’t make history so much as live in it.
November 19th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
#59,
i agee it would have to be tweeked. I do believe though that it would answer those that believe, you can’t mandate Health Care In.
November 19th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
#59,
i agree it would have to be tweeked. I do believe though that it would answer those that believe, you can’t mandate Health Care In.
November 19th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Do you really want to defend the steaming pile of manure called RomneyCare? See this:
http://reason.com/blog/2009/11/13/defending-the-massachusetts-he
Money quotes:
November 19th, 2009 at 5:43 pm
#62,
I don’t speak for conservativeRepublican, so I will again, ad my thoughts.
The author of the article in your link admits to not writing about the positive aspects. The Article that the author refers to does:
http://www.tnr.com/article/health-care/mass-appeal
No one is saying, even myself that MA HEALTH CARE is Perfect. It is better than what we had. According to the article, MA is NOW just getting into trying to solve the additional costs factor. Gov Patrick has not made this a priority. One can only wonder that if Romney were still in office, these issues would have been addressed. He’s not the Governor now, So we’ll never know, either way! I think he would have addressed the problems. Everything needs to be tweeked when it’s new.