I said on another thread that I wanted to see how Mike Huckabee played this tragedy. He has just made his first move. Here is his statement on HuckPac in its entirety:
The senseless and savage execution of police officers in Washington State has saddened the nation, and early reports indicate that a person of interest is a repeat offender who once lived in Arkansas and was wanted on outstanding warrants here and in Washington State. The murder of any individual is a profound tragedy, but the murder of a police officer is the worst of all murders in that it is an assault on every citizen and the laws we live within.Should he be found to be responsible for this horrible tragedy, it will be the result of a series of failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and Washington State.This commutation made him parole eligible and he was then paroled by the parole board once they determined he met the conditions at that time. He was arrested later for parole violation and taken back to prison to serve his full term, but prosecutors dropped the charges that would have held him. It appears that he has continued to have a string of criminal and psychotic behavior but was not kept incarcerated by either state. This is a horrible and tragic event and if found and convicted the offender should be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. Our thoughts and prayers are and should be with the families of those honorable, brave, and heroic police officers.
Reading it through, I can’t help but notice two things:
First, it places blame on “the criminal justice system” in two states. He specifically calls out parole boards and prosecutors for dropping the ball. Second, nowhere is there any mention of a Governor commuting the sentence of the “person of interest” over the objections of the prosecutors. The man would still be in prison if that Governor hadn’t signed that piece of paper over the objections of nearly everybody involved.
Four families are without their brothers, husbands, sons, and/or fathers tonight because it looks like Huckabee let someone out that should have stayed incarcerated — and all he can do is CYA? I had been hoping that we had left Mike “Who, me?” Huckabee behind last year and had moved on, but it appears he is still with us.
Huckabee is likely praying very hard tonight that the “person of interest” being sought is innocent of the crime. Otherwise this is going to be a tumble from which it will be difficult for him to recover.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:13 am
Toast
November 30th, 2009 at 1:26 am
Sad story. I too noticed that Huckabee passed the buck on this guy as well.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:32 am
Mike Huckabee pardoned this boy who was sentenced for 60 years for burglary. A few months after he was pardoned, he was arrested for breaking the parole. From that point on, Mike Huckabee had nothing to do with his sentence. So why is he being blamed when that boy served four years in prison after he was arrested. So you can see it was long after Mike Huckabee paroled him in the first place, and he was in jail again, (Mike Huckabee did not parole him again).
November 30th, 2009 at 1:33 am
Yucky man, Huckabee. I’m sure that’s very mild when compared to what the officers’ families are thinking and feeling.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:33 am
But if Huckabee hadn’t commuted his sentence of 95 years in the first place the later crimes wouldn’t have happened, he would have been in prison.
I don’t see how Huckabee can place the blame on the justice system, and the prosecutors. He needs to come out and talk about his role in this…
November 30th, 2009 at 1:33 am
Mike Huckabee pardoned this boy who was sentenced for 60 years for burglary. A few months after he was pardoned, he was arrested for breaking the parole. From that point on, Mike Huckabee had nothing to do with his sentence. So why is he being blamed when that boy served four years in prison after he was arrested.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:34 am
I am just mortfied that these officers were slaughtered in broad day light..and it is all because of Mike Huckabee, and he refuses to accept any responsibility for his seriously impaired judgment. The professionals told him not to let this Creep go, and Mike does it anyway. I really think he should be held liable for any one who has been a victim of this creep and I don’t think that is far fetched or radical at all. We need to start holding the judges and the idiots like Huckabee accountable for their screw ups to gain political points at the expense of society.
I am just sick at heart over these police officers being killed.
I don’t think we are far from the wild wild west anymore, and this scares the hell out of me. This country is on brain dead mode.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:38 am
Mike Huckabee SHOULD HAVE NEVER LET THIS CREEP OUT OF JAIL, HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN LEFT TO SERVE HIS 95, NOT 60, YEAR SENTENCE.
HE DISGUSTS ME..AND HAS NO PLACE IN OUR GOVERNMENT, ANYWHERE, HE IS A FLIPPING SELF SERVING CREEP. HE CAN’T EVEN SAY HE IS SORRY. WHAT A SOB!
November 30th, 2009 at 1:47 am
I live in Seattle, where this took place. Another cop was killed similarly, out of the blue, two weeks ago. Frightening.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:48 am
To help keep the tragic event like the shooting of the 4 officers from happening again, the Clemmons in this country should be put away for for a long time for crimes that they have committed, and the Huckabee’s in this country should not have the power to grant clemency’s and pardons, something they are not qualified to do.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:51 am
How dare Huckabee ! Pass the buck on to the failure of two states criminal justice systems. Bottom line, if this turns out to the criminal that he pardoned, than the only failure here is clearly Huckabee’s decision, over the objections of nearly everybody involved. I hope that Mike Huckabee looses tenfold the sleep that Families and friends of the slain officers, and that of the members of our community do. Can’t even take responsibility for the failure of his own decision. Mike Huckabee, I don’t appreciate you dumping YOUR CRAP in my backyard. Buck Up!
November 30th, 2009 at 1:53 am
Surely want to at least hear a statement from Huckabee about this creature’s release and the consequent results of his murdering these law enforcement officers. Just think you need to say something publicly.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:53 am
This will require more explanation from Governor Huckabee, and the old saying is still true; in politics if you are explaining, you are losing. Right now, Huckabee is going to be doing a lot of explaining, so he will be losing until he figures out how to handle this.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:53 am
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2007/dec/28/mitt-romney/yes-huckabee-pardoned-many/
November 30th, 2009 at 1:59 am
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=3983797&page=1
In July, when Little Rock, Ark., prosecutor Larry Jegley heard that Wade Stewart had been arrested for the robbery of a prostitute, with a .38 revolver tucked into his pants, Jegley says he just shrugged his shoulders, shook his head and said, “What the heck?”
Stewart had been serving a life sentence after fatally shooting, in 1973, 25-year-old Nicholas Papadopolis.
But on Dec. 18, 2004, Gov. Mike Huckabee granted Stewart clemency, making him eligible for parole, which he was granted. He was the 12th convicted murderer whom Huckabee had helped free from prison. And when Stewart was freed, Jegley had a feeling he’d be hearing from him sooner or later.
“I have been waiting for a lot of these guys that he cut loose to turn up on the police blotter again and again,” said Jegley, the prosecuting attorney for Pulaski County, which includes Little Rock. “I know some of the people that Huckabee let loose have reoffended. Some of them we’ve caught and some of them we haven’t caught.”
Jegley is a Democrat, but the concerns Arkansas prosecutors had about Huckabee were hardly partisan. Lonoke County Prosecuting Attorney Lona McCastlain, a Republican, says she likes Huckabee personally and thought he accomplished “some great things, but I disagreed with his policy on this particular issue. I think later governors will probably learn from the mistakes that were made during the Huckabee administration.”
McCastlain is referring to the fact that as governor from 1996 through 2007, Huckabee helped free through commutations and pardons more prisoners than had been freed by the previous three governors — Bill Clinton, Frank White and Jim Guy Tucker — combined in an 18-year period.
In fact, an Arkansas Leader study indicated that Huckabee helped free more prisoners from 1996 through 2004 than were freed in the six neighboring states — Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, Tennessee and Texas — combined.
None of the prosecutors were ever told why Huckabee felt compelled to have a hand in freeing so many prisoners, though all of them speculate that his deeply religious nature led to a strong belief in repentance and forgiveness. In some cases, prosecutors say, evangelical leaders attested that a prisoner had found Jesus and that seemed to influence the governor’s thoughts.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:59 am
argh misplaced tag.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:01 am
Huckabee’s in this country should not have the power to grant clemency’s and pardons, something they are not qualified to do.
Did you know Reagan pardoned about a thousand people too during his political career? Since Reagan’s California days were before the advent of the internet, it would be hard to track down how many were repeat offenders, but statistically speaking I would bet it would be more than a few.
And take a look at the lead CNN article:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/30/washington.police.shooting/index.html
After reading the article above, I highly doubt that the average rational person on the street would place the blame solely on Huckabee. In fact, the average rational person would take into consideration that the boy was commuted once for armed robbery (and probably the average American on the street would agree with Huck that 60 years is a long time to lock up a minor for that particular offense), and that as Vote for Truth argues, he was not commuted again. Clemmons’ second “escape” is due to the mistakes made within the system.
I have a strong sense that Huck will take strong flack for about a week or two, and will certainly be knocked out of first place in the polls (which could be politically advantageous in the long run). But this is in no way a knock-out.
But why are we worrying about political implications anyways? Why are some so gleeful of what this portends for 2012? This is a time for mourning.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:02 am
Deeply saddened by this totally senseless killing. I hope they get the guy. I will also admit without reservation that I hope this destroys any chance that Huckabee has at the presidency. This issue has always been very big for me and it has always been a reason I wouldn’t support him.
From the article directly above:
November 30th, 2009 at 2:05 am
17. There we go. I was just waiting for someone to somehow tie Reagan into this. It came sooner than I thought.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:07 am
19:
Let me continue then. Gray Davis = 0 pardons = Mitt Romney.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:12 am
The idea of a pardon should not be an issue; it is enshrined in the U.S. Constitution (Article II, Section II) and in the Constitution of Arkansas (Article VI, Section 18). However, for the sake of the Governors that want to use this power, there should be an agency in the executive branch under the Attorney General that thoroughly examines each pardoning case before sending it to the Governors desk, like there is at the federal level.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:13 am
WiseGuy–you are really grasping at straws, my friend. It’s a bit sad.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:15 am
60 or 95 years for theft/burglary by a minor???? Anyone who believes that this was the actual sentence given/sought by any jury/judge/prosecutors has got to be trying to see life through Huckabee-colored-glasses IMO. I’m sure there’s a lot more to the original Arkansas crimes that we’re being told. He probably did some other real horrible stuff, but they could get him easier/cleaner on other charges and so they probably plea bargained him to avoid a life-sentence/death penalty if they didn’t prosecute on the other charges. That’s probably the worst sentence I’ve ever written, but ya get the point.
It was well-documented at the time that Huckabee granted pardons galore when he was Gov . . . especially when his pastor-network friends told him that this felon had seen the light and come to Jesus. That weighed much more to Huckabee than what parole boards or Prosecutors or victim’s families had to say. It’s scary stuff IMO.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:17 am
20 – WiseGuy
Classy as always!
November 30th, 2009 at 2:18 am
FYI You have to understand the difference in handling clemency is different in Arkansas than in other states. Applying for clemency in Arkansas is like having a parole hearing and is actually handled by the parole board. Pardons and clemency are two totally different things, and I say this because everyone keeps calling it a pardon. It may make more sense what he says if you understand the fundamental difference.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:24 am
#25:
Thanks for clearing up the confusion. However, doesn’t the power of clemency still ultimately lie with the Governor?
November 30th, 2009 at 2:25 am
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/11/29/violent-felon-granted-clemency-by-huckabee-now-sought-in-lakewood-wa-police-ambush/
November 30th, 2009 at 2:47 am
When I first saw Kris’s post I thought it was a cheap shot and that we need to get all the facts first.
I still do to some extent. And at the end of the day a pardon/clemency is either a poor decision or good decision (in my opinion almost always poor) when it’s made – not 20 years later.
But Kris should be congratulated – he was right – this will be a big story and I’m afraid Mike’s defensive wiping his hands of all blame reminds me of why I ended up disliking him in 2008.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:48 am
Pass the buck Mike – have to say he reminds me of ex Gov palin in that regard. Where re the real leaders who take the blame for their actions?
November 30th, 2009 at 2:48 am
Huckabee, who ran for the Republican presidential nomination last year, issued a statement tonight calling the slaying of the police officers “a horrible and tragic event.”
If Clemmons is found responsible, “it will be the result of a series of failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and Washington State,” Huckabee said.
He added that Clemmons’ release from prison had been reviewed and approved by the Arkansas parole board.
Clemmons had been in jail in Pierce County for the past several months on a pending charge of second-degree rape of a child. He was released from custody just six days ago, even though was staring at seven additional felony charges in Washington state.
Clemmons posted $15,000 with a Chehalis company called Jail Sucks Bail Bonds. The bondsman, in turn, put up $150,000, securing Clemmons’ release on the pending child-rape charge.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:49 am
Clemmons had been in jail in Pierce County for the past several months on a pending charge of second-degree rape of a child. He was released from custody just six days ago, even though was staring at seven additional felony charges in Washington state.
Clemmons posted $15,000 with a Chehalis company called Jail Sucks Bail Bonds. The bondsman, in turn, put up $150,000, securing Clemmons’ release on the pending child-rape charge.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:49 am
Clemmons had been in jail in Pierce County for the past several months on a pending charge of second-degree rape of a child. He was released from custody just six days ago, even though was staring at seven additional felony charges in Washington state.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:49 am
Clemmons had been in jail in Pierce County for the past several months on a pending charge of second-degree rape of a child. He was released from custody just six days ago, even though was staring at seven additional felony charges in Washington state!!!!!!!!
November 30th, 2009 at 2:50 am
Clemmons posted $15,000 with a Chehalis company called Jail Sucks Bail Bonds. The bondsman, in turn, put up $150,000, securing Clemmons’ release on the pending child-rape charge!!!!!!
November 30th, 2009 at 2:54 am
Bye-Bye Mikey!
November 30th, 2009 at 3:59 am
[...] blogger Michelle Malkin pounded Huckabee on her website Sunday. And, as another conservative blogs point out, Huckabee signed “that piece of paper over the strenuous objections of everyone [...]
November 30th, 2009 at 4:26 am
For me, the pardon issue has always been relevant, and a major deal-breaker for Huck. His supporters have criticized me for bringing it up, as if it was not important any more.
With 1033+ pardons, there are bound to be problems, and unfortunately, many more victims as we sadly see tonight.
November 30th, 2009 at 4:41 am
If Good-Ol-Boy Mike Hadn’t pardoned him in the first place we wouldn’t have this mess to begin with..
November 30th, 2009 at 4:50 am
Its funny how so many defenders call themselves pro-life, and yet will justify themselves in the action of Huckabee.
Pardons and Clemency should have been used only under unusual circumstances, such as when information comes out showing a person was innocent, but unable to get justice from the system. It should never be used to put your personal judgment over the jury system.
As usual, Huckabee has a 1033+ excuses for his behavior, and his supporters will pardon him ever time no matter how bad the situation is.
November 30th, 2009 at 5:43 am
Huckabee said this in a radio interview in December 2004..
“I would not deny that my sense of reality of redemption is a factor, and I don’t know that I can apologize for that because I would hate to think of the kind of human I would be if I thought people were beyond forgiveness and beyond reformation and beyond some sense of improvement”……
He said this as the pressure on him from the Arkansas legal community was mounting against him for commuting the sentences of murderers and rapist.
This sounds like he was wearing two hats…one as Governor and one as a Pastor offering redemption and forgiveness.
November 30th, 2009 at 5:55 am
He would be someone who cared about the innocent who are potential victims of these vicious individuals. The power to forgive does not mean that evil people should not pay for their vicious crimes.
Any time you let a violent individual out of prison, you are playing Russian roulette with the general public. When you do it hundreds of times (don’t know how many of the 1033+ where violent criminals), there is going to be a 99%+ chance something bad is going to happen. How many more of these ticking bombs are out there?
November 30th, 2009 at 6:35 am
It’s disappointing to see so many of you are vultures feeding off the deaths of 4 officers for political gain. It’s tacky and disturbing that you guys are jumping for joy that 4 officers died because you think it may help your candidate. Disgusting.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:01 am
What is disgusting are your comments. If we don’t hold our political figures responsible for their actions, it will happen again and again. You would have us gloss over one of the people who is indirectly responsible for now 5 murders. Huckabee, in an indirect way has blood on his hands (at least morally). He could have stopped the rape and murder in Missouri, and he could have stopped the deaths in Washington, but you would let him off the hook. That is not only disgusting, it is much worse than that. It appears all it took to get either a pardon or a clemency from Huckabee is claim you found Jesus.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:05 am
#42,
Sorry Doug for me it has nothing to do with “jumping for joy” or any other BS. It has have everything to with this being entirely foreseeable with the amount of pardons he issued. As i said above, this has always been a big issue for me and I didn’t trust his judgement because of it. Sad that this tragedy could have been averted if different people has used better judgement and starting with Huckabee.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:06 am
#42:
This is a right-of-center (Republican)or conservative ‘political’ web site so by definition all matters that fall into this realm are ‘fair game’ for discussion.
For example Tiger’s Woods encounter with a fire hydrant has no place here but the political ramifications that affect any possible GOP contender for the presidency in 2012 is highly relevant regardless of the pain and suffering involved in the event.
Huckabee’s role in the release of Clemmons is highly relevant and in fact if it can be proven that Mr. Clemmons killed these 4 police officers Huckabee IMHO will suffer a major setback.
As it is now it appears highly probable that Clemmons is the perpetrator and highly relevant to conjecture what this means in terms of the GOP as we go forward.
I am not ‘feeding off the deaths of 4 officers for political gain’ but using this forum for the purpose it was intended- for a submission and exchange of right-leaning or conservative ideas.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:14 am
“It’s disappointing to see so many of you are vultures feeding off the deaths of 4 officers for political gain.” A lot of truth in that. It is too soon to total excuse Mr. Huckabee, but right now, we need to help the victim’s families and find out what happened.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:24 am
To use the words of the Arkansas Prosecutor.
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/11/29/violent-felon-granted-clemency-by-huckabee-now-sought-in-lakewood-wa-police-ambush/
The Vultures are those who allow someone like Huckabee to once again skate away from his responsibilities.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:25 am
If Huckabee is responsible for all the subsequent actions of the Arkansas Parole board, Arkansas prosecutors, and Clemmons himself following the clemency he granted, then why is Romney not responsible for all the subsequent actions of Patrick and the Democratic legislature following his creation of RomneyCare?
If we are to hold one governor responsible for actions that “should” have been foreseeable based on the facts at the time, why should this standard not apply to all?
I think Huck made some bad clemency decisions. In retrospect, he made some that have turned out disastrously. But I find it incredibly disingenuous when some Rombots try to pin the entire chain of events following a clemency on Huck, but plead for Romney’s complete lack of culpability concerning anything that was done following his creation of RomneyCare.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:31 am
“then why is Romney not responsible for all the subsequent actions of Patrick and the Democratic legislature following his creation of RomneyCare?” Bingo. Yes, Mr. Huckabee may have made a awful lot of misjudgment in terms of giving out pardons, but this does not appear to be one of them. Frankly given what we know so far, Romneyites, Palinites and Pawlentyites all look rather foolish going after this particular horse. We all need to go after Mr. Huckabee a serious item of poor judgment, not grap at straws and be silly.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:33 am
Once again, trying to change the subject and shift blame away from Huckabee. But if you want to play that game, I certainly can research every bad thing that has happened in Arkansas since Huckabee left and blame him for it. Lets see high taxes, recession, the list goes on and one. You are mixing apples and oranges.
A clemency changes a length of a sentence forcing the Parole to work within the sentence including Parole guidelines. If they don’t always have a lot of options, once a Clemency happens.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:38 am
What a load of BS. Huckabee was warned in 2004 what was likely to happen.
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/11/29/violent-felon-granted-clemency-by-huckabee-now-sought-in-lakewood-wa-police-ambush/
November 30th, 2009 at 7:38 am
“Once again, trying to change the subject and shift blame away from Huckabee.” Yeah, it was Mr. Huckabee who shot those policemen. He knew this burglar would soon become a cop killer. C’mon go after something Mr. Huckebee did do instead of being silly.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:39 am
Thunder,
No, it’s a serious question. From what I’ve read, this Clemmons guy should be in prison now from a parole violation after his clemency, but Arkansas prosecutors didn’t pursue it.
So the question is, should we hold a governor responsible for everything everyone else does with his original decision?
Apparently for some, it depends on if that governor is named “Mitt” or “Mike.”
November 30th, 2009 at 7:44 am
Thunder,
We’re going to be spending a LOT of time over the next 2 1/2 years debating candidates’ responsibilities regarding the actions they took as office holders. Don’t you think we should have some consistent ground rules for such judgements? Because it seems to me that a lot of the folks laying the blame for Clemmon’s and Arkansas prosecutors actions at the feet of Huck are the same folks who exonerate Romney from any responsibility for what others in Massachusetts did with the baby he created.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:45 am
Reply to 53: Two wrongs don’t make a right. I don’t know about the Parole issue, but I do know their was an outstanding warrant in Arkansas for it. So, for all I know, they were pursuing it. But in the end, it was Huckabee, without the Clemency, the four police officers would not have been murdered in Washington, end of story.
reply to 52: see 51, he was warned that he was a violent individual and he ignored those who where closes to the situation. When you play with fire, your going to get burnt.
It’s amazing how many excuses the Huckee-its have. Do they not believe in personal responsibility?
November 30th, 2009 at 7:47 am
What ground rules, Romney is being blamed for every thing that ever did go wrong!
Once again, still trying to let Huckabe off the hook. If Romney Care was the issue, I would discuss it, but its not, its the Murders in Washington and the murder and rape in Missouri and Huckabee’s responsibilities.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:49 am
Thunder,
“What ground rules, Romney is being blamed for every thing that ever did go wrong!”
So do you think that’s right?
November 30th, 2009 at 7:50 am
Thunder,
Prosectors decided to drop charges that would have forced Clemmons to complete his original sentence.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:50 am
Off to work for now, but I am sure I will find a lot more attempts to change the subject and let Huckabee of the Hook once again.
I have begun to wonder what has happened to those who called themselves conservatives. As far as I am concern, Huckabee is a RINO. Certainly as far as law and order is concerned.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:52 am
Thunder,
“But in the end, it was Huckabee, without the Clemency, the four police officers would not have been murdered in Washington, end of story.”
That may be true, but it is also true that without RomneyCare, MA would be in a lot better financial shape and ObamaCare wouldn’t have its working blueprint, and residents of MA couldn’t get $50 abortions.
That’s the question I keep asking. Should we or should we not hold politicians responsible for all actions that others take subsequent to their original decision. It’s not a question of “letting Huck off the hook,” it’s a question of being intellectually honest and consistent.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:53 am
I don’t think you understand how a clemency works, once granted, it cannot be reversed. It could only have undone the Paraole, not the Clemency, so the clemency would still have been in effect. Once Huckabee signed on the dotted line, the sentence was shortened, and it allowed for Parole.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:05 am
Huckabee has never been held accountable for his outrageous abuse of power with the judicial system. How many more criminals that he set free are out there to kill, rape and rob again? http://www.arkansasleader.com/frontstories/st_08_11_04/huckabee8.html
November 30th, 2009 at 8:26 am
MWS,
You’ve jumped the shark today. I’ve never seen one of your ‘points’ with less merit.
Okay, we get it – you hate Romney. Now move along little thinker.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:29 am
Huck released 12 murderers. Does anyone know how many rapists went free? at least one, I know.
There is NO WAY ANYONE can justify Huck releasing these 1000+ criminals. How long is Huck going to stay off the hook for this extreme miscarriage of justice and blatant God complex before his fans get that little light bulb going off over their heads???
I’m afraid we’re going to have to wait a long time, my friends. There’s now possible 5 dead as a result of Huck’s misjudgment.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:30 am
Martha,
“I’ve never seen one of your ‘points’ with less merit.”
We both know that’s not true…..
As to the question at hand, do you think Huck is responsible for decisions made by others- police, prosecutors, and the criminal himself- subsequent to his own clemency decision?
It’s an honest question that is important regarding how we go about assessing the judgement of candidates.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:32 am
Thunder,
“Once Huckabee signed on the dotted line, the sentence was shortened, and it allowed for Parole.”
No, I get that. But Clemmons violated his parole years ago and by rights, should still be in jail today as a consequence of that parole violation. For whatever reason, the prosecutors apparently decided not to pursue that. Is Huck responsible for that?
November 30th, 2009 at 8:39 am
65. Of course, Huck is responsible only for his own decisions. However, this problem originated with him, and none of the subsequent mistakes would have happened without his original error.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:45 am
Doug,
Your accusation is extremely offensive, and untrue. There is NO ONE jumping for joy that 4 cops were gunned down. That’s just about the most obnoxious thing I’ve ever seen you write.
I’ve been trying to call attention to the pardon problem for a long time. Huck supporters just don’t care, unfortunately.
It goes to the heart of Huck the man, and whether or not he has the character and sound judgment to be president.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:48 am
Martha,
“However, this problem originated with him, and none of the subsequent mistakes would have happened without his original error.”
Wait a minute. Are you talking about clemencies or RomneyCare?
November 30th, 2009 at 8:54 am
69. Desperation? Listen, your guy screwed up ROYALY. Be a man and take the heat. You don’t have to be a pansy and bring up Romney every thime your guy sticks his foot in his mouth.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:56 am
BTW, how long are you going to defend him and his actions. Does another family need to be murdered? More cops? Just wondering how far you guys are willing to blindly follow this guy and not at least stand up for what is right.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:01 am
MWS, four police officers are dead because Huck let Clemmons out of prison. This is beyond disgusting. It is also beyond disgusting that you would defend this action. It is also beyond disgusting that you compare these murders to the cost overruns of MassCare. Do you have any scruples?
November 30th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Martha, actually Metro did jump for joy on another thread. He said something like thank God that this happened.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Was incompetence in the Arkansas justice system so rampant that intervention at the rate of once every three days while in office was demanded of the governor? With so much information to read and consider in all these pardons and clemencies, what time was left to the governor for other issues and responsibilities? Surely he was not flippant and arbitrary in these determiniations. Meddling with the judicial process on behalf of convicted criminals at the rate of one every three days? Do you like that? Does that sound wise? Is his personality so compelling that it properly overshadows the judgment and processes of an entire governmental system for years? You can compare this abuse of authority with Romney’s legislative efforts to craft a remedy to under-insurance in his state, but my goodness you look dang foolish!
November 30th, 2009 at 9:23 am
Dan,
I found this from Mcon.
“Deeply saddened by this totally senseless killing. I hope they get the guy. I will also admit without reservation that I hope this destroys any chance that Huckabee has at the presidency. This issue has always been very big for me and it has always been a reason I wouldn’t support him.”
Was there another comment that I missed?
November 30th, 2009 at 9:29 am
Martha, on Kris’ thread Metro said “Thank God this man was pardoned by Mike Huckabee. One can only hope this is enough to deep six the Huckster.”
November 30th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Dan,
Okay, I didn’t see that one. But he actually said thank God the man was pardoned by Huck, NOT that 4 cops were killed – that it happened.
Anyway, they have the guy surrounded at a house, and a woman said she dropped him off there and that he was bleeding.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:45 am
I hope that Clemmons dies and doesn’t go to trial.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:45 am
Dan,
“It is also beyond disgusting that you would defend this action. It is also beyond disgusting that you compare these murders to the cost overruns of MassCare.”
In my very first post on this thread I wrote this:
I think Huck made some bad clemency decisions. In retrospect, he made some that have turned out disastrously.
I did not say that RomneyCare is the same as 4 dead cops. My larger point was how we go about assessing the judgement of candidates, when their decision is made worse by the decisions of others. I understand you only want to talk about Huck’s bad decisions, and we’ll have plenty of time for that (indeed, we’ve been discussing them a lot since last night).
What I am asking for is some consistency in how we assess intial decisions that are made worse by others. Given all the screwups since Huck’s initial clemency, I don’t see how someone can say on one hand that Huck is completely responsible for everything everyone does after his itital decision on the one hand, and then say Romney (for instance) is not responsible with what others do with his initial decision.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:47 am
If Huck is the 2012 nominee, I’d be concerned how many other Dumonds and Clemmonds are running around. I would also be concerned that the Dems will use Huckabee’s religious beliefs as a wedge issue to make independents uncomfortable with him.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:51 am
All the posturing on this thread aside, I think the single wisest line in this thread came from Heath (a commentator I rarely agree with) in #28:
“at the end of the day a pardon/clemency is either a poor decision or good decision (in my opinion almost always poor) when it’s made – not 20 years later.”
And that’s really the issue. The decision needs to be judged on the facts at hand when the decision was made. Nobody can see the future. Sometimes the right decision turns out badly, and sometimes the wrong decision turns out okay. So the question is, based on the facts known then, did Huck make the right decision? Nobody disputes that the aftermath was horrible (except Metro), but before we hang Huck from the highest tree, I think we should know more about the context of the original decision.
If Clemmons turned out to be a model citizen who raised 12 wonderful children and gave a $10 billion endowment to the Special Olmpics, would that mean Huck made the right decision at the time? Again, I don’t know. It depends on the info he had at the time and his reasoning.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:54 am
asparagus,
“If Huck is the 2012 nominee, I’d be concerned how many other Dumonds and Clemmonds are running around. I would also be concerned that the Dems will use Huckabee’s religious beliefs as a wedge issue to make independents uncomfortable with him.”
I think the clemency thing is a legitimate concern. I seriously doubt that the party of acid, abortion, and atheism really wants to make religion a big deal though. Not in a nation of believers.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:57 am
If Huck doesn’t run, where do Huck fans turn? Rick Perry?
November 30th, 2009 at 10:13 am
MWS, the only time that it is acceptable to pardon or grant clemency to a violent criminal is if it is proven that the pardonee didn’t commit the crime. No other arguments are sufficient to pardon violent criminals.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:18 am
Huck has blood on his hands over Clemmnons and Dumond. He will have to stand before the judgment bar of God and be condemned for his complicity in their crimes. He will be damned for failing in his stewardship as a Governor who released violent criminals with no concern for recidivism. Some will try to ameliorate his crimes because he is a man of the cloth. But that fact will doubly damn him. He was a shepherd who should have been protecting the flock. Rather than protecting the flock he endangered it by taking ravenous wolves who were imprisoned and turned them loose on the flock. Frankly, he is worse than the Catholic Bishops who protect pedophile priests.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:20 am
85. Dan, exactly right.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Dan,
You would presume to judge souls?
November 30th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Dan,
Do you know what blasphemy is?
November 30th, 2009 at 10:30 am
“hat may be true, but it is also true that without RomneyCare, MA would be in a lot better financial shape and ObamaCare wouldn’t have its working blueprint, and residents of MA couldn’t get $50 abortions.”
Not even close to true MWS. The Mass. plan is 1.2% of the state budget. Medical expenses have grown by 3/10ths of 1% of the state budget each year, much lower than most other states.
Abortions were paid for by the state prior to the Mass. plan.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:33 am
You forgot to mention the final judgment coming for everyone related to Huckabee, supporting Huckabee, affiliated with Huckabee, in the TV/radio audience of Huckabee, and uttering or typing the name Hucka… oops! Damn!
November 30th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Mark,
“Damn!”
You can say that again……
November 30th, 2009 at 10:37 am
ConRep,
My point was the details of RomneyCare per se, but the idea that we should apply consistent judgement. Many Rombots blame whatever is wrong with RomneyCare on his successor and the legislature. Well, Huck can blame this on the prosecutors who didn’t pursue his violation of parole and the Washington judge who released him on bail.
So my question is how culpable the original decision maker is for all subsequent decisions that are out of his control that were made possible by his initial decision?
November 30th, 2009 at 10:40 am
92. MWS, I can’t believe you’re still running with that crap.
N O R E L A T I O N S H I P W H A T S O E V E R.
Desperation is all it is.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:48 am
Anyone who knows anything about rates of recidivism will know that when Huckabee released over a 1000 criminals back into society, he was doing so with the knowledge that a very large number of them would commit crimes. When you release scores of serious crime criminals, you should have enough sense to know that SOME of them are going to rape, plunder, and even murder again. ANyone who has ever studied this (as a governor should) would know that it is a foregone conclusion that this would happen.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:51 am
ANyone who has ever studied this (as a governor should) would know that it is a foregone conclusion that this would happen.
Maybe even Reagan himself, who granted 1000 pardons over his political career.
I could care less about the number of pardons and would focus more on the merits of each case. In the case of Dumond, Huckabee has much less justification. In the case of Clemmons, Huckabee is reasonably justified when you look at the facts of the case.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:53 am
WiseGuy, Reagan was wrong to make all those pardons. He was wrong to sell weapons to Iran. He was wrong to create the first czar in the administration. I could keep going with his mistakes.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:58 am
I think this is a valid point, however at some point Huckabee will have to address his reasoning to grant clemency in spite of the objections of the prosecutors and others.
I would like to see the specific reasons for the objections before casting a judgement. Will wait and see, however I think this won’t be good if he decides to run. Warranted or not, it won’t be good.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
To what end will the Huckabee cult defend Hicks actions?
Does have to have the smoking gun in his hands?
November 30th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Hicks=Hucks
November 30th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
“If Huck doesn’t run, where do Huck fans turn? Rick Perry?”
You got that right!
November 30th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
“This is a horrible and tragic event and if found and convicted the offender should be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law.”
Yes, I agree Huck. Exactly why you should have done this the first time around. What a moron.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Huck = Pontius Pilate. Dude, do you realize you are not just going to be able wash the blood from your hands and turn your back on this?? Right now there is a very dangerous and wounded “preditory wolf” wandering around my neighborhood, possibly more sheep to be slaughtered, as a result of your defective decision? And to you supporters? aiding and abetting? May you all rot in hell along with this monster, and pray that no more may suffer!!!
November 30th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Typical Republican Smoke and Mirror Show
November 30th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
So it looks like Huckabee commutes the sentence and allows for parole. He get’s paroled, but is arrested again. At that point, IMO, Huckabee’s responsibility is (to a great deal, but not completely) over. Once he was arrested again, his previous sentence is irrelevant. Prosecutors should have put him back in prison for life for parole violation… the fact that they didn’t leaves much of the responsibility on their door step.
I’ll give a hypothetical example: If Criminal X commits a crime, Governor B lets him out. After a while, Criminal X commits another crime and goes back to jail. In 10 years, Criminal X is paroled, and commits another crime. Is Governor B still responsible? Perhaps he’s responsible for the crime Criminal X committed that put him back into jail, but not the subsequent crime… the timeline of responsibility doesn’t fit.
Now, I know this will upset folks like Keith Olbermann and those on the left who like to blame any and everything on the right… and I know there are a lot of folks on the right who don’t like Huckabee and will try to blame him for this as well… but I’m not sure you can really pin this on his actions. He shouldn’t have allowed the parole board to hear this guys case, for sure… but this crime was not a direct result of him getting paroled. It was the result of later crimes, and their failure to be punished appropriately.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Bottom Line. Had he not commuted his sentence, he would be in prison now. Just more Smoke to cloud things their a bit Rom?
November 30th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faKzzgXVAv8&feature=player_embedded
November 30th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2009/11/30/2010388798.pdf
December 1st, 2009 at 7:06 am
Shot, Wounded, and Captured!
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010393433_webarrest01m.html
December 1st, 2009 at 7:09 am
Dead!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125966812323771121.html
December 1st, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Huckabee is originally and primarily responsible & should man up (unless he’s not a man, a point which is arguable given his shuffling, waffling & continual deflection over this and previous tragedies he is responsible for). What a quibbling coward he is. Provide all Huckabee’s commutated parollees/offenders with his personal address/locator information so Huckabee can offer additional assistance, and let him be the first line of defense against early-released predators rather than innocents (and unsuspecting cops) on the streets.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Mike Huckabee: I Take Full Responsibility
December 1st, 2009
From Mike Huckabee:
Mike Huckabee: I Take Full Responsibility
The nation was stunned by the senseless and savage cold-blooded murders of 4 young police officers in Lakewood, Washington. Whenever a police officer or soldier is killed, I feel the loss is even more profound for they are the ones who stand between our freedom and anarchy.
At the time I write these words, police are still searching for Maurice Clemmons who is believed to be the one committing these unspeakable acts. Nine years ago, that name crossed my desk. I commuted his sentence from 108 years to 47 years. Many news reports, talk show hosts, and bloggers have erroneously said that he was granted a “pardon.” Others speak of me “setting him free.” As one who now hosts a talk show and who does daily radio commentaries, I can attest to how easy commentary is compared to actually governing. I am not seeking to justify or defend my actions of nine years ago, but it’s important that I answer for my actions and give some explanation as to how and why his sentence was commuted.
I take full responsibility for my actions of nine years ago. I acted on the facts presented to me in 2000. If I could have possibly known what Clemmons would do nine years later, I obviously would have made a different decision. But if the same file was presented to me today, I would have likely made the same decision.
Each state is different, but in Arkansas, a governor doesn’t initiate a parole—the Post Prison Transfer Board does after it conducts a thorough review of an inmate’s file and request. The board then makes a recommendation to the governor, who decides to grant or deny.
If the decision is made to grant any form of clemency (the broad term for a commutation or a full pardon), the governor gives notice of intent and the file is sent to the prosecutor, judge, law enforcement officials, the Attorney General, and the Secretary of State as well as to the news media. A period of 30 days is then started for there to be public input as well as response from the above named officials. At the end of the public response period, the final decision is rendered.
Between 1,000 and 1,200 requests for some form of clemency came to my desk each and every one of the 10 ½ years I was governor. Ninety-two percent of the time, I denied the requests. When I did grant them, it was usually based on the recommendation of at least five of the members of the PPTB, with consideration given to the input from public officials.
Maurice Clemmons was 16 years old when he was charged with burglary and robbery. He was sentenced to a total of 108 years based on the way in which the sentences were stacked. For the crimes he committed and the age at which he committed the crimes, it was dramatically outside the norm for sentencing. The PPTB recommended in 2000 by a 5-0 vote for his sentence to be commuted.
He had served 11 years of his sentence. A pardon would have set him free and cleared his record. A commutation to “time served” would have set him free and released him from any parole reporting. As per the recommendation, I commuted his sentence to the term of 47 years, still a long sentence for the type of crime he had committed, but it would make him parole eligible. It would not parole him, as governors do not have that power in Arkansas. He would have to separately apply for parole and meet the criteria for that.
Despite news reports to the contrary, the only record of public response to the notice to commute was from the trial judge, who recommended the commendation in concert with the board. There were letters of support, but no record of letters of opposition.
Following the commutation, he met the criteria for parole and was paroled to supervision in late 2000. When he violated terms of his parole by participating in additional crimes, he was returned to prison and should have stayed there. For reasons only the prosecutor can explain, charges were not brought forth in a timely way and the prosecutor ended up dropping the charges, allowing him to leave prison and return to supervised parole.
He moved to Washington state and had intermittent criminal activity that increased in violence and frequency. He was allowed to post bail in Washington state and while on bail from there committed the unspeakable acts of murdering four valiant police officers. I can’t explain why he wasn’t prosecuted properly for the parole violations or why he was allowed to make bail in Washington state and not incarcerated earlier for crimes committed there.
I wish his file had never crossed my desk, but it did. The decision I made is one that I now wish were different, but I could only look backwards at his case, not forward. None of this is of any comfort to the families of these police officers nor should it be. Their loss is senseless. No words or deeds by anyone will bring them back to their loved ones. Our system is not perfect and neither are those responsible for administering it.
The system and those of us who are supposed to make sure it works sometimes fail. In this case, we clearly did.
December 2nd, 2009 at 5:16 pm
And let’s hope that there is a review of the others that they have trucked up here.
http://www.king5.com/news/Governor-says-no-more-Arkansas-prisoners-78341957.html